There's nothing in either canon that says either is stronger. Super introduces dumb weaknesses that make Dance better, but not necessarily stronger or weaker.



So, every universe where fought Broly as Mega Buu (the DBM story, not this) started as the same universe (universe 20). In most, Salagir says. It deviated there to "two paths", Universe "21" where Broly died, and 20, where Broly survived.

It's the same thing now. They started this fight and the fight could have gone several ways. Consider those universes like 20, 20.1, 20.2, 20.3...

In this one, Broly wins, in another, Broly one shots Vegeta and wins without a Gogeta, in another, Vegeta is killed and Gohan and Goku fuse. In another, they start the fight fused. (These are all examples)

Tldr: It should say "deviations from universe 20"

@Damian

I'm okay with the ice change. It's not perfect but it's no big deal. It's better than tearing at the immaterial fabric of space.

Some people have an issue with the art, which I understand.

The bigger issue is just characters making impossibly wrong choices, Plan B, which they'd devised before the fight, was infinitely better than Plan A.

There's no universe where the Z Fighters make these choices.

Probably close enough that one of his adolescent rages can last long enough to beat Vegeta down, before the humans help finish him off.

I hope that's where the story is going.

RIP, New Trunks 1 Replie(s)

It's a shame that the human universes are always up against indomitable threats, it's so nice to get to see og characters get the spotlight.

Aside from the last two, you're retrofitting to the initial introductions of each transformation. Goku got SS2 the same way he got SS3. Vegeta has gotten all of his transformations out of jealousy.

Gonna be honest, I could absolutely enjoy five pages of Brolycicle floating through space.

Each panel, the ice just gets bigger and bigger. 2 Replie(s)

@Zen Kuu, Good points about U18/16 taking the Broly fight immediately serious.

Vegito understood that nobody there stood a chance, so he immediately saved Goku by distracting Broly.

I miss Hero Vegito

— --

People talk about mirroring all the time, and I get it.

Mirroring is a great tool for outlines. It can also work if you're going to obstruct part of the character behind someone else.

You can also mirror and then edit the result, which a lot of artists do. It's even useful to start from there if you're not naturally good at consistent proportions

Saiyan armor is symmetrical, but a saiyan body is only symmetrical in shape, it shouldn't be a perfect mirror on the page.

Buu's clothing is symmetrical but you'd never draw it symmetrical on him (wrinkles and all). It would stand out like a sore thumb 1 Replie(s)

16 years.

Holy Crap, Lois.

It did fine. It established the contrast between where DBS left Future Trunks (happily ever after, besides the infinite trauma) with where this fanmanga is starting (infinite rage and infinite trauma).

But no dual wield :( 1 Replie(s)

I'll just leave some advice.

If this were your own story, with your own characters, you can make characters make poor choices, and people won't be so bothered. Although, if your characters have a super tool, like fusion, and don't use it ASAP, it will still get criticized when it comes up later.

Sidenote, this is why DBM Broly is so criticized in a story that is otherwise well liked. He's not a deviation, or an evolution, he's a boring overhaul, worse than the movie's creation.

But we know who this crew is, we know all the power and strategy available to them, and they approached the fight with no strategy. The year they had changed nothing at all, except for SS3 Vegeta.

If you're excluding great strategy, or including bad strategy (Raditz and Nappa), people will react

That's been obvious, it's by far the best way to add weight to this story

And Gobot would be the only thing that Gast might have (emotional) trouble against. And Gobot might keep his rage mechanic.

Or they were already forced to kill him, being the one they killed.

Narrator: They could.

I don't think it is. An SS2 tier fighter Gohaning himself to above Vegito is just ludicrous

Good, worst thing ever. 1 Replie(s)

We love your stories goten_kun

I'm hopeful that Gohan (and maybe Nappa) turn on the Saiyans and become the protectors of Earth and have a long happy ending.

Besides U16/18, Gohan never ever gets a good life. 1 Replie(s)

Of course, the characters probably didn't know about Broly's lifespan.

The biggest problem, as I've always said, is that Broly defeated a character far more powerful than any of them, MegaBuu v1, and their Plan A was just to jump him all together. Plan B was incomparably better.

They also know that Broly defeated a Black Hole lol.

Plan C, unseen, was the best. Buu absorb Gogeta as well. And Janemba when he shows up. By golly, I bet he'd be almost as powerful as fatigued Vegito (lol)

And these characters aren't stupid. They're identical to Z fighters, except that Broly missed the sun. We can tell, since Uub and Buu are there.

Team power never works in Dragonball directly. It always has to be combined in one person. (Fusion, Spirit Bomb, Broly Movie)

A team did beat a worn-down Vegeta.

Vegeta helped vs cell, but Cell was struggling v Gohan, Vegeta offered a distraction.

In Father/Son Kamehameha, it was more morale boosting. Goku didn't actually contribute to it. 1 Replie(s)

The two stories are essentially the same basic thing. They tell the last events of U20 before the tournament. Both are an all-out battle in which they lose.

So yes, DBM DID do their version of this story.

There literally is. https://w...&chapter=80

In it, the characters are ambushed and put together the best possible plan they can in the moment.

Also, lots of prequel stories tell a story where the basic ending is already known, like the Star Wars prequels. They aren't perfect, sure, but there's a great thread in there about the tragedy of it all. 1 Replie(s)

I know he said it, but I think it's a myth. No one made him tell the story this way. Maybe DBM objected to some planned plot point (I doubt it), but it still doesn't explain the disjointed plot events.

I think Uub had one line, Bojack too (who cares), Janemba was a distraction. Raditz and Nappa got more screentime than almost everyone, but the final three fighters.

It genuinely feels like, much like Chibi Son Bra, each page was mostly just what he felt like drawing next, which is part of why we never saw Gogeta and Buu attacking together.

It's a sad thing, the chance at Buunemba could have been cool. This always could have branched to a sub-branch of U20. 2 Replie(s)

People correct the translation all the time, but this one was fine. This line, like it is, is entirely in Mr. Satan's character to play himself down.

— 

I'm having some trouble feeling any tension in this story, Gast can and will decimate everything they can throw at him, nobody else stands a chance.

This Cell might be, but shouldn't be, as strong as Super Perfect Cell, but even that is nothing against an SS3 tier fighter

The only thing I'm waiting for is the reveal of the lie, and expecting a Gohan reveal--which are probably related.

Inb4 Cell is built on Gohan

You're saying that the LSSJ meter would be reset? So like, this Broly would be about as weak as the Broly in his first movie, when he first went LSSJ?

Is there lore on that? 2 Replie(s)

Harsh, it's barely even begun.

I'm all for it, if it goes somewhere interesting, gives F/T some closure, and maybe a happy life.

It isn't plot convenient. Plot convenient usually involves plot armor or a deus ex machina.

But their strongest fighter didn't show up til two or three decent strength fighters were already obliterated. They waited forty pages, maybe fifty, to apply any actual strategy. Once they used strategy, Vegito and Buu would each be absent or motionless for several pages.

When you're moving at FTL speeds, a half hour lasts forever. A comic can get two panels from a half hour, or a hundred pages. Look how long five minutes last on Namek.

If you want the fight without a strategy, start it with an ambush. Broly breaks into Other world and one-shots Gohan or Vegeta, or maybe Goku. That would have been cool, we could have seen a new fusion.

If you want to avoid fusion, say that two dead fighters can't fuse. For absorption, there are a few ways to not have Buu here.

If you want to start a planned fight, then they should have been fused and absorbed before Kai transported Broly.

All Broly is, is a big number. He's infinity. So you have to be creative and smart if you want to take him down, and maybe use characters with magic like Mafuba or Dabura's spit.

So, presumably, this causes a cataclysmic destruction of everything in existence

Broly survives it. And people thought surviving the supermassive black hole was absurd (it was)

I held out hope that this would be like U20.001 where they eked out a surprise win.

Instead, they picked a fight without a strategy against an enemy they were terrified of.

At least their willful ignorance didn't pay off, that would actually be worse



This Gogeta was based on a fusion of Goku and Vegeta with like 11 more years to train, the last year being very serious.

In DBM, the same is true, and that Goku/Vegeta have SS0, and both the component fighters are alive, since Vegito seems affected by a dead Vegeta.

Gogeta in DBM should decimate Vegito, on speed alone.

Fair, sorry

Yeah, Buu absorbing Broly made no sense towards weakening him.

Buu bunding Broly (like a rope) might have had some value.



It's questionable how absorbed Broly was. It seems like Buu was barely more than a layer of goo over Broly. They didn't want to absorb him, because he'd truly be the dominant force and absolutely unstoppable. 1 Replie(s)

A more powerful fusion than even Vegito!



Goku, canonically, or here, would fail to that too. He's cocky enough to never take a fight seriously

Double-dead horse, but they had plenty of chances and time.

There are things writers need to do if they want to avoid obvious solutions.

Instead of "Let's not fuse," you can say that neither/either fusion doesn't work if both people are dead.

Same for absorption, or just make Buu not be here at all.

If you really want them to abandon any plan, use an ambush. Broly tore a dimensional hole open, or punched through the Ice Barrier. In his ambush, have him double-kill Gohan or something. Rip off Bardock's Vegito vision lol

it's a reasonable question. Every other character in the last two pages is decently drawn, but Kai is "phoned in" both times.

Heck, Porunga, the most difficult of these characters to draw, looks great. 1 Replie(s)

Quickly, tell Pan, and she can rage like her father and fry some broccoli.

Why is Supreme Kai drawn so badly? Every body else is drawn fine, but same as last page, Kai looks awful 1 Replie(s)

Just call it a power-bottom, he'll do it.

So powerful, Geetz.

Salagir is lurking these comments, til he finds yours, and then vigorously scribbling notes.

color really accentuates this page! Colorless looked q little like pajama pants lol

Poor Gohan, never gets a happy life.

I'm counting on you goten_kun

All the art on the page looks fine, except Supreme Kai. Someone else must have drawn him.

I still don't understand the point of Janemba at all. He didn't do anything at all, and the author confirmed in the first reply that he is destroyed.



No, no no, he's just excited to see everyone else back. (I love this)

Eh, they could have come up with any reason, like a meal, ending fights for the day, since it's unfair to allow one fighter to be rested while the other just came out of a fight.

Awards are cute, but it's disappointing to see more awards day after day.

Maybe the audience awards are gonna pick on us lol 3 Replie(s)

It was the silliest power-scaling jump.

The power scaling made much of the arc unenjoyable.

Plus, they should have just use Future Goku's body from Heaven. Would have been so dark and awesome to see Frieza-tier Z fighters fight someone on at least Majin Buu's level.

They're saying that if it killed Buuly, who would be some degree stronger than Broly, then it should have killed Broly.

It's, so far, a dark ending, and that's cool, it just played story-gymnastics to get here

And frankly, it never made sense that "this wasn't the original story, and was rushed,"

If DBM made him change it, surely they would have given ample time to do so.

Silly question... Should this be considered canon, or filler? Because Vegito did walk off towards the apartments just before this started. 1 Replie(s)

oooo, Maybe this is why Vegeta snaps. He tried his hardest against invasion #2

this is a joke :) 1 Replie(s)

It's not canon to multiverse, but some side-comics canonize it, or parts of it, for their own fun.

good news, Gogeta healed between pages 1 Replie(s)

While that is a terrible reason, that's been the implication all along.

Character assassination for a switcheroo. Neither is a good choice.

okay, absorbing Broly is definitely the worst idea.

If it works, you're super invincible and evil.

If it doesn't work, you're very likely destroyed.

Absorb Gogeta. For multiple reasons (his power, his safety.

Using Buu to bind Broly could be good, or cover his fists to soften the blows

seeing calm Bra next to Colors' 287 where Bra is raging is a cool contrast.

Happy accident

https://w...colors-287.html

the thing is, it doesn't matter how long they stay fused because we have no idea how long they've been fused.

It could be four minutes, it could be 29:30.

Other than specifically telling us, there's no way to infer that. Even like the sky changing doesn't accurately show time.

Absorbing is still better from a story angle. The armor is only as strong as Buu is. Absorbed, they'd both gain the strength of the other.

And there's no reason to spit him out until the fight is over.

Even once he defuses, they can better protect him, and Buu would still have the strength of the individuals.

I admire the adaptation of using Buu as armor, but absorption would be better, for all of them, especially when Gogeta defuses.

So the next step should have been Gogeta saying "Finish it, Buu", and pink goo covers the rest of him.

The tile matches the paneling.

Gast is so ridiculously hax lol.

— --

He probably did absorb some of Gast's power. He probably needs to digest it.

I wish we had a closeup

the ice we skate is gettin pretty thin... 1 Replie(s)

I love that the multiverse ending bad guy feels compelled to follow a rule. 1 Replie(s)

Vegeta isn't in Buu. 1 Replie(s)

Forfeit should have been the last word on the page, but greattt page.

There can't be a Goku vs XXI. Goku has no chance, nobody but Zen would, and I doubt he'd win, even with his moderator powers.

Uub exists, but he can't legitimately be as strong as Zen who, again, would struggle against XXI.

— --

XXI must not be immune to the Birds' machine, and unable to interfere with it like Zen. Otherwise, there's no reason he didn't act much sooner, at least by the time Zen was sent home.

Perhaps this, but also just story.

If Superman punched everyone as hard as he can, there'd rarely be a story to tell.

Not only that, but Buu has essentially auto refill on stamina. You either take him out in one shot or he comes back.

The attack that can destroy Buu may have a more lasting effect on his stamina, but it doesn't seem that way.

He took on every fighter in the tournament without breaking a sweat.

Sure, that's Zen Buu, but Z-era Buu shrugged off lots of heavy attacks.

Goku is screwed if Gast wins. He has no chance against either of them.

I hope not.

The best reason for Vegito to snap was everyone turning on him after Bra. No other reason presented is remotely justified.

To have him be a crybaby over losing many rounds ago is complete character destruction.

With bra, he's right. She'll be the most powerful person in the universe. Gotenks and Gohan can't stop her now, they'll never stop her if she turns as an adult.

So, he overcomes Gast, punches Bra, Gohan attacks, and Vegito knocks him the heck out, maybe breaks his neck.

— --

Maybe XXI majinizes him, the magic boost from Gast enabling him to do so, but that isn't him snapping, that's just him losing.

okay, "Vegito, can you hear me?" was cute.

So this is an extension of canon-U20. They acknowledged they did the absorption last time.

Buu absorbing Gogeta was expected here, but both fighters fused and then Buu disappeared for a dozen pages.

Gogeta should be able to defeat Broly, but it's Broly, you want to give it your everything.

SS3 IT-elbow to the neck, anyone?

It's crazy how characters just disappear from the action.

Gogeta should, at least, be charging one ginormous attack.

— --

Broly's infinite growth means he wouldn't be destroyed by his own attack, but it doesn't mean he wouldn't be hurt.

Gast can still win. XXI isn't invulnerable like this, or this barrier isn't quite impenetrable, otherwise XXI wouldn't have needed to weaken him first.

"What power(!)" doesn't necessarily mean strength, like.. it just doesn't. I can't prove that it definitely means magic either, but magic is XXI's main method so far.

@Evil Shenron topic

I hope so. Execution wasn't great, but corrupted dragonballs was among the best ideas for a story. Their wishes did get a little selfish. 1 Replie(s)

Cell has cunning and charisma. Everyone loves him :). Plus, he's intelligent enough that he's more than just a brute, even though he succumbed to to rage against Gohan.

It would have been cool to give him a spotlight. He could be made stronger, through Zenkai, and then see him take over Buu.

Gogeta turns around, horrified, to see a Cell-shaped Buu, and declares he'll deal with it later.

Or see him absorb Buu. He probably could. Fat Buu, hax aside, didn't seem much stronger than Cell--SS2 Vegeta would have defeated him, except for his hax.

Of course you can comment :). I was just asking.

I forget that you're a translator. Being a mod and a colorist on Colors doesn't really necessitate being able to read ahead on DBM. I just always figured you could.

Your comment was just convincing enough that I had to ask :)

Also, XXI is a formidable magic user, no doubt, but that has little to do with strength. Him being able to destroy a piece of Buu isn't a shock :)

It wouldn't even be a shock if Babidi could. 1 Replie(s)

True form or not, this thing looks Namekian, a little.

Wonderfully hard to tell!



Meh, that's always been Dragonball. Their weakened state is relative to their max state, which is how, weakened, they tank blows that would have ended them an arc ago.

It's almost like they always have the resilience of their max state.

But also, XXI probably isn't very strong, which is why he used Janemba



Do you get to read ahead? Obviously you won't spoil anything 1 Replie(s)

Why do the Italians think you're a girl?

fried pickles, anyone?

Oh, lol. The comma. The comma changed everything.

sry

Yes, we don't know. In universe, most the characters probably do know exactly how strong Gast is in battle and how strong he is when going all out.

All we can do is go off reactions to Gast, and by Gast. 1 Replie(s)

Unfortunately, there's no indication of how strong that is, because we don't know how strong Gast is.

Realistically, on a strength level alone, Gast would probably have easily defeated Janemba. It's all his hax abilities, and immunity to Gast's magic, that made him formidable.

There's no indication that Gast, strength-wise, is far past Buu tier.

All we know about his strength for certain is that he knew he couldn't defeat Bra, and Bra (in the Janemba fight), was surprised Gast wasn't stronger.

lol, Raditz armor broke

That doesn't work. If Gohan's rage wasn't an element, something else would have happened.

Raditz lost for the same reason Vegeta and Nappa did: Saiyan cockiness.

But really, every villain except maybe Buu, lost for that reason. It is the Shonen way.

Had they just landed and handled business, they would have won.

@MUI

Everyone's strategy has been far more casual about this than they would have been. Buuhan2 would not have stayed out of the fight.

XXI's face looks bulky, like a namekians's (or cell/cold/etc. toriyama really liked that style)

I'd rather see Gast win. He's more interesting than XXI because he's more developed.

But Goku can't rightly defeat either of them.

I wonder if Buu can just copy Janemba's abilities?

If so, Janemba would never ever be able to defeat any remotely intelligent Buu.

Not likely. Goku SS3 was about equal to Janemba and Goku was weaker than Gohan, from 15 years ago.

Janemba has no business being stronger than anybody here.

Being able to heal yourself to an extent makes sense. You're cut, you're not necessarily out of ki.

I hope this page is called Last Gast for Air

It's hard to argue that it's rushed while adding wildcard characters. I think we've seen as many panels of Janemba as we have Buuditz

We haven't even seen Buu, besides inner-Cold(Cooler?) in 14 pages. It's really odd he's not in this shot.

What was the point of him merging just to stand there? 1 Replie(s)

Yes, this Krillin looks much better than the canon-hair look from late Z.

handling the lie off screen is so anti-climactic.

As I said above, you could have had Thorn privately remarking to Gast that they're lying, and then the readers and the survivors learn together when Thorn eventually confronts them, or something forces him to say something. 1 Replie(s)

I mean, a stranger directly called her a liar. That needed to be dealt with directly.

Forget the magic, the robots, the shape shifters, interstellar travel, this is what makes it unbelievable.

Joking, but yeah, the lie should have been dealt with, or not made public.

If you want to hold off, Gast and Thorn should have talked about the lie privately.

Realistically, Janemba has no chance against this Buu. Honestly, he probably couldn't defeat Fat Buu (stalemate)

SS3 Goku kept up, this Buu is at leasttt 3x as strong, (Buu, Gotenks, Gohan, plus all the rest, and 15 years of evolution)

Janemba doesn't need Gogeta's attention. 1 Replie(s)

The Happening (2008)

is he just low on parts, or?

Lmao

The biggest indicator of this is that he was conceived in the same era. He has to be a challenge for the Z-Fighters at that level, like how Bojack was somewhere near Perfect Cell.

And if he's near Buuhan, he's stronger than MG.

Trouble with EoZ Mystic Gohan is that it's unclear if he can ever get stronger. It seems that DBM Gohans didn't. U16's wouldn't have felt a need, and U18 seemed dead-even with him.

And DBM never showed a variant of adult Gohan that isn't essentially U18, besides Mirai.

The fact that they were dead-even alone implies they never grew in strength.

— -

Also, Goku was no match for Janemba, in the same way that SS2 Majin Vegeta was no match for Fat Buu. They were similar strength, but Buu used his tools like infinite stamina, impossible regeneration, etc.

It has to, lol. It's about all Gohan gets :P

I was joking a little. :)

It's just that no alternate universe is ever kind to Gohan.

Other than a truly valiant showing in the Bra fight, he's a side character. In every other universe, he had a miserable life, and is usually dead.

One single universe where he got serious and stayed serious would be cool. Trained, learned other techniques, etc etc. 1 Replie(s)

I missed something I guess, where's the clue that Cell is coming? 1 Replie(s)

SS3 Goku wasn't enough, Gogeta was. That puts Janemba in the same murky range as EoZ Gohan. It's impossible to say who is stronger at that point in canon, and DBM hates Gohan lol, so there's nothing but the movie to go by (I know it isn't canon.)

We don't know how Gast, pure strength, stacks up against Gohan, although Gast is smarter about his fights. 1 Replie(s)

Can't imagine Janemba's purpose here other than keeping Buu busy.

If Buu absorbs him, he probably is powerful enough to overtake Gohan's dominance and corrupt Buu. That fighter would be trouble for Gogeta

They told Buu to make sure Gohan was the dominant personality, but by power alone, Gohan should be. But Janemba is probably stronger. 1 Replie(s)

you did amazing at your own spin on it. You didn't copy his art, or his layout, but you copied the mood.

The eyes on Shadow-Janemba feel a bit off but the rest is perfect to me.

I guess I would get rid of the eyes, and apply some definitely to Janemba. A shadowy figure rather than a silhouette, or he's broken a hole in the window and his hand and color-sword are sticking through.

But all that is just a difference of opinion on presentation, your choices were great. 1 Replie(s)

lmaooo... Feels too real

one of these two things is a lie
— - the androids killed Gohan
— - they killed an android

It just seems like they were left with no choice but to kill an android Gohan.

If Gast reads Krillin's mind, he'd understand.

Only question is how Krill-dog overcame the power boost Godroid would have gotten.

Maybe Goku was still alive to do it, but unlikely. Forget a heart virus, a broken heart would kill Goku.

You could just ask him to write a more consistent story.

There's a reason Blancoverse, Goten-kun's stuff, etc received less criticism: They told a consistent story. They didn't immediately dismiss any criticism as just wrong which Saya has been doing ever since Goku waited for two deaths before showing up "The release schedule just makes it look that way"

Forgetting the numbers of power levels, the franchise heavily depends on the concept. Wits haven't won a battle in canon in a long time.

The stronger fighter always wins.

What proof does Thorn need? They showed up, and got attacked. It was Krillin that saved these guys.

Plus, Gast can just read Krillin's mind and know the truth.

It's possible they killed a cyborg. Without the experience on Namek and Krillin getting his potential awakened, he's probably under 10k.

Androids may be very weak as well.

This scene is missing Mister Popo :)

— ---

What if the cyborg they killed was Gohan!?!? 2 Replie(s)

Tremendously professional comment, matching the consistent quality of your art and storytelling.