As opposed to the same dark energy that was there during the fights with Gast and Buu?

Universe 10? But thats the universe of the saiyans and namekians who left very early on. So that should be..... empty.


Well its absorption time I guess. 1 Respuesta(s)

Stone dragonballs... huh. Was really hoping this wasnt going to be evil-dragon-related. Still holding on to that one.

Did love the mood whiplash between panels though

Im very confused about how healing and energy consumption works for Gast.... heavily injured but still knows enough magic to fully heal himself? huh? 2 Respuesta(s)

Well this turned out to be an unexpected horrorshow.

In space, noone can hear you scream.

Well the scales on his head disprove my idea that it was a Kanassan. Now I honestly dont have an idea what species this is, so Im guessing an OC.

......is Xii.... a Kanassan??

I always loved the juxtaposition (sp?) of Videl and Gohan. Gohan had all the strength but loathed combat. Meanwhile Videl loved martial arts and was a fighter at heart.

I love Videl in Super. I like that she's a down to earth woman there, who focuses on her family. After her beatdown, death, and introduction to the Z warriors and later on becoming a mother, I am totally fine with her saying "ok fighting can take a backseat". But I would have also liked to see more of her teenage years/early relationship with Gohan where she still demonstrates being a capable fighter.

So a Cell without Super Saiyan DNA, no Freeza/Cold DNA, and his strongest cells came from Saiyan Saga Vegeta.

yeah Gast should be able to stomp this guy. If anything, this Cell should be weaker than 4th form Cold, and by a considerable margin.



And I say "no super saiyan DNA", because gero already had Goku's DNA by this point, there's no reason to get it again, and without further threats there was no reason for Goku to ever go Super Saiyan. Vegeta also never came back, so... lot of information is lacking. And while Krillin poses no threat, Gast would absolutely clobber the hell out of anything Gero throws at him. Even Perfect Cell.

Wait so.... those androids could detect engines and such, but a hub that likely consumes way more power than most remaining human cities went virtually undetected?

Gero is shit at building proper power detectors. 1 Respuesta(s)

Well so much for the HR department.

guess energy sensing isnt omnidirectional for them

#28??? Holy hell what even happened in this timeline, sheesh

Hang on, so on top of being megadrainers compared the 19 and 20 in the main timeline, these guys can detect engines AND energy?? Only Android 16 had that upgrade out of all the androids we ever saw.


Im seriously confused why on earth these guys had these massive upgrades done. There's no way Goku managed to train himself to the strength he had in the main timeline (additionally; virus likely killed him leaving only Krillin and Gohan as defenders). 1 Respuesta(s)

Im sorry but why exactly are these guys SO powerful they insta-drain Gast here? There was no reason whatsoever for Gero to upgrade the androids in this timeline, and a regular, non-mastered SSJ1 Vegeta didnt drop down from this that fast. I understand plot most happen but wtf.

Gast knocks her arm sideways, yet the panel next shows her arm fully extended again?

Oh no it's the Red Ribbon HR Department!

So are Thorn's eyebrows... always shaped like this?

Christ was has that Trunks been eating? He is INSANELY buff

Well thats the trash mob killed Gast, you still got the raid boss to deal with. Was nice of him to stand idly by and not do anything by the way.






Which is weird. Without Goku or the Z-warrior left alive, the Androids should have ran crazy back on earth, and either overtook the world for Gero/RRA, or killed most of the human population to the point where there wouldnt be enough energy for Buu to revive on. 3 Respuesta(s)

Dark Lightning? 1 Respuesta(s)

uhm.... well that kind of came out of nowhere

That looks like something that would tear someone to shreds.

Its so weird how everyone seems to believe that fusing with an immortal results in a new immortal. The wish was to turn Kakarot immortal, not whatever fusion he can become part of. It was a massive annoyance during that dumb as bricks Zamasu arc, with one half being immortal -,-;


That said, I said it before and I'll say it again; I miss Prince Vegeta's glorious cape :(

It shows that Bra is not of the generation that decides "Im just going to warm up, then take it slow, then powerup to a certain percentage, and then go all out".


Frankly speaking, we have no clue how strong Gast is without his magic. He easily handled the SSJ2 Cell Jr and was just toying with him, he wasn't even worn down after the ghost Vegeta SSJ3/Broly fight, and only got a bit tired during the Hatchiyak fight.


Though I do hope his shtick isn't just "magic" and "pretend to be cut into pieces and fully regenerate everytime".

Finally! A good use of portal skills!

Reminds me of the Spider-man cartoons where Spidey fights "the Spot". wasn't a very serious fight, but that was a really fun take on portal combat. This really means Janenba can counter any sort of energy attack he can see. This is going to be a fun fight.

Gast be like: "Oh no! Anyway..."

Im going to say XXi is going to WIN this tournament. He'll face Goku in the finals, and he'll win. He then gets his wish, as that is his prize, and whatever his wish is, is enough to reveal the true big bad of the story, and it will require the remaining participants to somehow stop it all.


Thats right, I'm just going to say the story isn't going to end when the tournament does. Its going to carry on for a whole different storyline after that.

I swear Vegito needs a lesson in humility. Though I'm surprised to see him act like... this. And not still seething through his teeth.

Also, Gast literally glued his sorry ass together. At this point Im starting to question "why bother"

This is the same thing Tapion said, so Im hoping we dont see Hirudegarn again XD

Its going to be hilarious if XXI has a technique to seperate Gast's fused bodies. It would get rid of one of the strongest fighters AND strongest magicians around, and would be a reason why Vegetto is able to go fully berserk without anyone being able (or willing) to stop him. 1 Respuesta(s)

You... do understand what a "mary sue" character is supposed to be right? 1 Respuesta(s)

I do love watching Mary Sue. Pretty sure there's going to be a gag strip where she actually wins the tournament.... somehow. As a reward for saving people or w/e. And she does look beautiful, admittedly. Stellar artwork.


Absolutely love the "Im so done with your shit" look L'k'l 's mom gives her as well.

Huh... I just thought of something else.


Vegetto has already been drained of energy without senzubeans to revitalise him, since Bra destroyed the ones they had during the rebellion. He was already fatigued a bit before that. (Commenters already pointed this out before to explain his moodswings getting worse).

But now, on top of that, his body was partially destroyed, and while Gast was able to save him, he also states he can't restore his full power. So Vegetto has to be weaker than he's ever been by this point (or at least around the level he was after the space fight with Buu, where Bra injured him).

I'm sure he's still one of the strongest fighters around, but Im not so sure anymore that he is THE strongest one around... 3 Respuesta(s)

I dont think thats Mary Sue but thats absolutely a Mary-Sue kind of thing to say.


Also sheesh, Yamcha finally telling the androids off. I understand his intentions but these two are just irredeemable annoyances right now. You can be rebellious, or not fully understand the situation you're in... but these clowns have been killed, deactivated, magically revived, magically restored, seen dimensional magic, been oneshot etc etc. At some point, you just need to say "okay, f*ck it" and cut someone off. I love Android 17, he's always been a favorite of mine. But this guy's just a brat. Cut his head off and use it as an ashtray or something.




how was she part of a plot? She signed in a participant, and said participant decided to go rogue. With nobody but 4 people who understand what happened: The birthgiver, Androids 17 and 18, and Yamcha. No evidence beyond that. On top of that, she's asking to be sent home of her own accord.

Vegeta was still alive, and in subsequent panels after Krillin blasted him, you see him walking towards dende with visible (damaged) skin. I kind of took that as the energy blasting through it but not entirely destroying the body (Krillin didnt intend to kill him, so why would he blast the entire chest away anyway).

Regarding that Panel, thats also not how Senzu beans work. Thats not how they ever worked. They fill up a person for 10 days, and rejuvenates them in a way that equals 10 days of optimum rest. It does have magic properties in that it can regrow teeth, "regenerate" skin tissue etc (but not diseases).

At no time ever, did senzu beans regenerate a full lost limb. And before someone says "Dragonball Super, it happens to Moro": 1) Super isnt canon to this series, and 2) moro had regenerative abilities already. I dont remember the trunks manga special, but considering he had never even seen a senzu bean, Im chalking that up to him just not knowing what they were even supposed to do. 1 Respuesta(s)

Okay, Ive said this before during the Majin Bra/Senzu Bean stuff... this isn't "healing". Namekian healing doesn't fully regrow lost limbs, much like how Senzu Beans dont regrow full limbs. Namekians themselves can regenerate, but nowhere did we ever see it fully restores a destroyed body of somewhere else. I really think this is just a blatant oversight at this point, or purposely ignored for the sake of keeping the story going.

Truthfully, it would have probably been better to keep Vegito dead for a bit. Really emphasize the shock to U16 that nobody is really safe here, not even Vegito who is practically considered a god by this point. 2 Respuesta(s)

Dallas eat your heart out!

We know SSJ3 Vegeta could oneshot a Cell Jr who had, as Cell put it, the "most power he could give it at the time", which is likely the SSJ2 tier he had in the Cell Games post-Goku's explosion (I doubt he'd give more because it would give away his real power at that time, he hadn't revealed it yet).

As far as we know, the Saiyans dont get zenkais anymore after super saiyan, however we can assume Kakarrot gained a big powerboost after Babidi's Majinisation. But even so, Mystic Gohan utterly annihilated him, with ease. Ridiculous ease even. We can say Mystic Gohan was likely either slightly above or around Goku's SSJ3 level in the Buu Saga. We can also assume here that Prince Vegeta simply doesn't train, or at least not as much as Goku did, so his SSJ2 was likely weaker than that of Goku. His SSJ3 is definitely weaker.

So following this logic: Mystic Gohan > Kakarrot (SSJ2 level) with ease during majinisation. Vegeta SSJ3 > Cell Jr with Perfect Cell power (SSJ2 power, the level Cell was during the end of the Cell games.

This somewhat "proves" that Vegeta would utterly annihilate Kakarot here, in a flash, while in SSJ3 state.

Radditz is purely guesswork right now. But lets look at the facts that we know: it's established that hybrid saiyans like Bra, Gohan, and likely Goten and Trunks as well (if they'd actually train), surpass their saiyan parents. Gohan's hidden potential as such, was vastly more than what Goku's potential, who is a pureblood saiyan.

Now, Radditz was at the Ginyu's level, according to himself. The mere sight of a SSJ1 Bardock was enough to make him utter "oh thats unfair", implying he's not even SSJ level or close enough to hold his own to one. And even in his Great Ape form, he was handily beaten.


Now, we dont know exactly what Old Kai's power does. In fact, we already know he's pretty much guessing how large power increases would be based on his response to Radditz's level, and he had no concept of how strong SSJ3 vegeta was... so we can assume he doesn't feel power auras or anything.

There are 3 possible ways his boost works, at least in my opinion

1 - the target gains a significant powerboost, thats just a flat increase, based on the target's initial strength (which I dont think is the case)
2 - the powerboost given to a target is the absolute max that they are capable of reaching (I also don't agree with this, because it would mean their strength is permanently capped out.. and it would make no sense for Goku to be able to train and get stronger while Gohan is stuck on his Mystic level forever).
3 - The powerboost given to a target is the absolute maximum potential a target has... at that time. I feel this is the most reasonable one. It would forego any required training previously done, and it would make you as powerful as if you had done the most efficient kind of training in all your life prior to that moment. However, no training afterwards means you'd never increase in strength either.


If #2 or #3 would apply, it would mean Radditz suddenly has the potential that rivals U18 Goku at that time, maybe even surpassing that. If it's #1 he's just screwed. However, regardless of which of the ones it is, it will be a significant boost to him. Even if his potential would be lower than that of Goku, it would still boost him high enough that his Great Ape transformation might be the decisive factor in all of this.


Sadly, anything regarding the mystic powerup is guesswork. We only ever saw it work on Gohan, and we have no idea what the true mechanics of it are. However, there is one thing we do know... and thats that he simply isn't strong enough to beat SSJ3 vegeta by himself. For a simple reason: the fusion of kakarot and Radditz was able to almost take out SSJ3 vegeta, but it was anything but a one-sided match, which is likely due to kakarot's immortality/durability. And as we know, Potara Fusion is insanely broken, creating a character thats stronger than the two combined, several times over. That, finally, is enough for me to reason that these two by themselves stand no chance whatsoever. Kakarot didn't have a chance to begin with, but Radditz even with his powerup shouldnt be able to hold a candle to SSJ3.

Of course, it all depends on how fast Vegeta is drained of energy now. If his transformation runs out, he straight up dies without question. If it lasts a few more minutes, he wins (and I doubt Nappa could sneak kill him even in his wounded state) 3 Respuesta(s)

"Together we can beat him".


Lets just shove this into the drawer with "wounded vegeta grabbing his left arm", "spam ki blasts never working", "characters expecting a foe covered in smoke to be damaged when they can sense energy" and all the other memes.

Im guessing the writer forgot Goku and Radditz do know how to sense energy and should feel how insanely outclassed they are here? Either that or it is a vision that really needs to go away now. 1 Respuesta(s)

This is not how immortality works.. this is never how immortality works.

I'm honestly hoping this is a dreamsequence at this point, because if U13, one of the more interesting universes, is done away with like this it would honestly be one of the worst sendoffs in this entire story so far. It would be a complete waste of time on Radditz' powerup, it would remove Prince Vegeta who has honestly been a fun character to keep around, and it would all around just be incredibly shoddy writing. I'd argue getting rid of them this way would be even worse than how Buu was removed from the story.

Im getting flashbacks to the Bra vs Gast fight now... which isnt a good thing.

you're telling me Radditz, who rated himself to be "as powerful as Freeza's elites" (aka the Ginyu force), after a mystic powerup, would have reached SSJ2 levels of power? Really?

yeah this is 100% in the mind of old kaioshin. There's no way most of these fighters would be intimidated or impressed by this fighter. 3 Respuesta(s)

Return of the glorious mega forehead!

Okay, this has to be a chapter that ends with "but it all turned out to be a dream". End of 2359, the wobbly line.. yeah this is a dream of sorts.


Incidentally I dont think that even a fused Mystic Radditz and Kakkarot are enough to beat SSJ2/SSJ3 Prince Vegeta, but thats just me. 1 Respuesta(s)

to this day this pisses me off. A fused Zamasu was still a NEW entity and person. If anything the writing should have been "since you're a new person... we can kill you". I know people crap all over GT but Super's writing was absolutely not THAT much better in many areas. 1 Respuesta(s)

I.... dont know how to feel about this. We know he's insane. But even with his insanity, we do know he has a certain level of intelligence. I cant imagine him being THIS damn stupid. This is Dragonball Super levels of dumb.

Well, let's see how this plays out.

Ive always taken the "mystic" transformation as a "this is the pinnacle of what you are capable of at this moment". Otherwise it would imply a character could never, ever grow stronger. Which we now know is definitively not true with that... ugh.. godawful "beast form" Gohan has.

So perhaps while Radditz might be at the peak of his powers now, he could still become stronger later in time, if he keeps up his training.

Of course, he should stand no chance against Vegeta, who likely did train for a longer time, under heavier circumstances, and has full mastery of SSJ1 and SSJ2, with now having SSJ3 unlocked to also train with.


Either way, it was a bit of a weird gamble to put his hopes on Radditz. Then again... its not like this Kai was familiar with the saiyans, and certainly not with Vegeta's depth of power. Only time will tell what his plans really are, because we have no indication he is going to keep his end of the bargain to the letter.

Im sorry... what.


Are we really certain the Grand Supreme Kaioshin "destroyed his brains before letting Buu absorb him"? Because I'm starting to question him ever having any to begin with. 1 Respuesta(s)

....This reminds me of the first episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer, where the poor innocent schoolgirl ended up immediately eating the guy who took her to an empty building.

what continueity? This is the future where the Androids win right? They didn't win in History of Trunks, so this being different shouldnt matter at all. 1 Respuesta(s)

Roshi lives in the universe where Trunks defeated the Android, the "future timeline". I cant imagine him living through this, in which case I'm wondering where the divergence was between future trunks' timeline and this one. All we know is that in this universe, the Androids ultimately win, which hasnt happened yet.

I swear to god one day I'm going to create a bingo card to put up for every special and mark every complaint in it 2 Respuesta(s)

It will be a cold day in hell before I ever call him "Vegerot". I always preferred Vegetto, but Vegito is okay since its the canon DBM name.

.....Lord almighty thats... BAD. I rarely say this but I can write out better passages than that and english isn't even my native language. Not even joking, these sentences are a direct attack on my eyes. Its like reading the inside of William Shatner's mind.

On top of that, the main story has Goku clearly saying "SSJ1 and SSJ2 revitalise you, while SSJ3 drains your energy".

I dont consider the novels canon at all. Some of writing is good (I did enjoy U16's story of Vegetto's problem with food), but the novel should be taking with an unhealthy amount of salt, as some thing clearly either disregard DBZ lore, logic, or contradict the story. Some is good, some is bad.


Regarding the "sense bulma's energy".. pretty sure nobody was ever THAT skilled that they can sense the energy of regular humans. But.. it was also never implied that they couldnt. 1 Respuesta(s)

Im aware of that. Physically, their bodies are in their teens. We dont know exactly when Gero captured them, but since their names are indicated as androids 17/18 (aka projects 17-18), we can assume he started working on them after Android 16 (so at least after the Red Ribbon army was destroyed). So this makes 17 30 at his oldest (given that he would be 3-4 years older than goku assuming he was a 17-18 year old teenager at the time) AND thats assuming Gero finished 16 and worked on 17-18 in the exact year immediately... which would be odd considering it would then lead into over 15 years of testing. At his youngest, it would mean 17 and 18 were still in their teens as Gero could have kidnapped them as late as post-Freeza.


However, with them you can unironically say "age is just a number", because it doesn't matter for these two: both of them are acting out as rebellious teenagers, not caring about consequences and just having "fun" (in their own twisted way). Their bodies are still that of teenagers too. And we can assume they have rarely been activated, considering Gero made a safety switch specifically for them.

To say "Roshi is schooling a teenager" is absolutely correct, because mind, body, and personality wise... #17 is a teenager.

correction; a teenager is being schooled by someone with 300 years of life experience 1 Respuesta(s)

Im sure 17 will hold his end of the bargain. And then 18 kills him while Gohan saves Bulma and Trunks.

well... thats literally what they did. Two kids who broke out of the control of Gero, and found themselves indestructable and more powerful than anyone else in existance.


Their existance never bothered me. Gero being able to create cyborgs with a human base that suddenly were several times stronger than the defacto strongest warriors in the entire universe, now that always rubbed me the wrong way. I kind of wish he had used Radditz and Nappa's bodies for this instead. Saiyan physiology would have explained the powerup a bit more, they'd have actual reason to go after the Z warriors, and it would be great to see how they as characters would be different.

But, that said.. Android 17 was always one of my favorite characters (and I loved how he played a big part in Super's final arc), and Android 18 was, lets face it, sexy as hell, and she certainly slapped the pride out of vegeta. Just such a shame Super's animators made them look so... emotionless and robotic for the majority of the anime, when they perfectly showed emotions in Z. Oh well. At least GT gave Android 18 some great moments. 1 Respuesta(s)

He wouldnt have SSJ3 or 2. Goku learned the mastered SSJ form out of necessity in preparation for Cell. Before that, he never considered that. Same goes for Vegeta. As far as both of them knew, Super Saiyan didn't have any "levels". At best, I'd say Goku would learn to master Super Saiyan. Vegeta isn't even a factor because he wouldn't be allowed to keep his body (while not evil anymore he surely wasn't redeemed to be a good guy at this point). 1 Respuesta(s)

I dont understand why this simple fact about Gohan is ignored by a lot of people though: Gohan isn't getting stronger by a lot because he simply doesn't have the right tools to train, and no sparring partner.

Think about this for a moment:

When Goku trained as a kid, he trained alongside krillin
When Goku trained as a teenager, he trained at Kami's place in the room of spirit and time, and he trained with Mr Popo (who was "stronger" than him at the time)
Goku as an adult trained on King Kai's planet, under 10x gravity and was taught new techniques
Goku on the way to namek trained under 100x gravity
In preparation for the androids, Goku trained with Piccolo as a sparring partner
Goku was the one to figure out that he needed to "master" the SSJ transformation before ANY of the others did

Piccolo used his multi-form technique to create training partners. He also had meditation techniques to train
In U18 he trained with Goku for the androids

Vegeta grew up training in 10x gravity, had tons of advanced mechanical equipment, and his own saibamen fodder to train with
Vegeta also understood the power of the zenkai boosts
Vegeta trained in the gravity machine in preparation for the androids (and also to surpass goku and future trunks)


Looking at the rest of the warriors; Tien probably trained with Chiaozu, and even Master Roshi had a sparring partner in his younger years. Krillin trained with Goku as a kid, and as an adult he focused mostly on specialised training for his techniques (Kienzan, the Kamehameha control etc). The only one who had no real training gear or sparring partner was Yamcha, and we know he's the weakest of the Z warriors.


Anyway, to summarise; Gohan has a master in Roshi when it comes to techniques and some ki control. But he has zero knowledge on saiyan physiology. He has no guidance on the Super Saiyan state. He also the least amount of battle experience out of EVERYONE in the series at this point. He has NO equipment to properly train him. He also has no way to find the dragonballs because nobody know where the Namekians went to. Simply put: Gohan is alone in everything that matters when it comes down to survival. Hell, at this point he never even visited the Lookout so he doesnt even know how to go there, and Mr Popo might not even know how to find him.

Gohan at this point only has 2 useful training options: the Lookout (safety, assuming the magic shielding the place from technology is still in effect, and hyperbolic time chamber), and a training device that Bulma could build.. which is something she might not even be able to do considering her dad built the one used in the main timeline.

Gohan losing hope here is not that strange to read. Obviously its not why he lost, but he is what, 9 years old here, and he just lost literally everyone he loves save for his mother, and he THOUGHT his dad could help him, and that lifeline just got cut in front of him. Kid is depressed and nobody can blame him.



Trunks in "History of Trunks" wasnt exactly hopeful either. He fought because he had to, because there was noone else. But at no point was he ever even shown to display the confidence things would turn out right, UNTIL the time machine was made. yes, THATS when suddenly he had hope again; because he had a reason to be hopeful. Before that, he didn't have it. What reason does Gohan currently have to have any hope? If Gohan had a "oh well, things will be alright" attitude after everyone more powerful than him just dying left and right, THAT would be misrepresentative of the series. There was always someone who inspired hope when things seemed hopeless (aka Goku returning to fight the saiyans and Freeza), or a new idea (mastering the SSJ state). Gohan will have hope when he is given a reason, which I assume will happen soon.


Seriously, a lot of people here have never tried their hand at proper writing or analyzing proper writing and it is showing hard sometimes.

@Kururun [quote]What's the difference between Goku training in heaven and coming back to life with Dragon Balls to defeat the Saiyans, and Goku (or Z team) training in heaven and coming back to life with Dragon Balls to defeat the Cyborgs?
Answer: None[/quote]

Goku didn't train in heaven... he trained with King Kai (who was very alive). He was given special permission for this, after Kami, Earth's Guardian, made a case for him. Enma listened to this, and allowed Goku to travel to King Kai as a special case.

Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the rest of the conversation. DBZ is riddled with similar plot points (such as Piccolo asking to be wished back so that kami would return as well). I do believe a simpler solution could have just been Enma putting his foot down and saying "you already used up your favors last time Goku, I cant keep making exceptions for you or Earth in general anymore. Earth needs to fend for itself from now on. And have King Kai agree with that. Its a reason I like Beerus and Whis somewhat in Super; they bend the rules but they have no problems putting their foot down if the situation demands it. King Kai and Enma in DBZ have been too lenient in the past, and them putting their foot down now will come off as asshole-ish to the readers. Even if they would be right. 1 Respuesta(s)

"The dead must NOT interfere with the world of the living" ~the dead lady who travelled to the world of the living~

I know Piccolo died and they had no dragonballs... but you're telling me Goku couldnt have asked King Kai to establish contact between the Namekians and himself, or Gohan and the Namekians? That never made sense to me. Yema wouldnt give them a day back, sure, but we long since established King Kai gives no f*cks about meddling in mortal affairs. If Goku had asked him, he would have helped. And there's no way the Namekians wouldnt want to help out the people who saved them from Freeza.


Really thats the one part about History of Trunks that always irked me. Dragonballs are always an option until the story decides to forget or ignore them being a thing.





all the novalisations are different from the comics in either minor or major ways. You should use them as a rough estimate on what will happen, but not as a literal guide. 1 Respuesta(s)

He used the attack before but didn't name it back then. He used the exact pose and charge against Recoome on Namek, so it could have been that attack instead.

you're forgetting Vegeta trained 3 years before the arrival of the androids (in 300x gravity and grueling training in space), and then trained another full year in the hyperbolic time chamber specifically to master the Super Saiyan transformation (With Trunks as a training partner), something he didn't even consider possible until after #18 humbled him.

Also Cell literally taunted him to use his most powerful attack and was nice enough to let him charge up for it too.

Both those things are non-factors in this fight. 2 Respuesta(s)

Hes not going to turn SSJ2. I havent read the novel but it would be beyond stupid if he did. At this point in the timeline he only recently reached SSJ. Reaching SSJ2 would be godawful writing that makes absolutely no sense, not to mention if he WOULD turn SSJ2 the androids wouldnt even be to able to singe his nutsack.

Aaaaand he's dead.

Now, I know Vegetto had some anger issues.... but I won't really fault him if THIS is the final straw that breaks his patience and he goes full apeshit. Lets be real, he loses his match because he got banished in another dimension, he missed out on a huge battle royale due to Babidi's teleport spell, he was humbled by Gast who outright stripped him of his most powerful transformation with ease, he was humbled (unintentionally) by Goku and Vegeta who reached a new transformation he never even considered, he was humbled by his own family telling him HE was also a danger.... and now he was frozen in time and shattered by someone so much weaker than him it's honestly an insult to any saiyan.


Oh yeah, I don't question how this is going to cause him to go berserk. Make it so. 1 Respuesta(s)

Its a bio-android really, much like what Cell is. Kind of. S/He's fully organic, so a namekian would be able to heal them properly. Remember, Cell was able to regain his health with a Senzu bean as well. I dont think L'k"l would be any different. 1 Respuesta(s)

Yamcha better have increased the speed of that sokidan by now because thats a LOT of beams to destroy...

In before XXI steps in and wastes L'K'L in the blink of an eye.





There's that. But you also have 2 Piccolo's aka the "Nameless Namekian" who both at least possess Kami's knowledge on how to create dragonballs. They'd be able to teach any of the other Namekians who are of the Dragonclan, assuming Mori couldnt teach them himself.

Nice. A little of Yamcha's backstory, a little bit of L'k'l's personal motivations and reasons, and it involves XXI. I'm down for it.


Of course, Vegito (and maybe U16 in general) are going to have a hell of a fit over what just happened. And I guess we can give up on 17 and 18 reforming... though I wonder why both of them are even around in the first place. They lost their matches long ago.

Hot damn Yamcha bringing home the PAIN TRAIN. Beautiful artwork!

Aw man, Yamcha just dealing out a martial arts master class here. Loving the art and the pose.

Yamcha was hurt? He got hit by 18 in the knee, and she hit him full force, and it seemed a minor inconvenience to him. On top of that, after he's told 16, 17, and 18 are down, he says "he doesn't need to worry about them anymore and can fight at a 100%". Meaning he was holding back before.

And you're forgetting that yamcha was fast AND strong enough to deal a lot of damage to a majinized Cell Jr, who was made after Cell killed Gohan in his timeline (after Goku's failed attempt to IT him away). And that cell jr was SSJ2 level. While Yamcha might not have been able to kill it, he managed to deal damage to it.

Semi Perfect Cell couldn't even handle a trained Super Saiyan like Vegeta or Trunks. A mastered SSJ like Goku wouldnt even touch him, and any SSJ2, or close to it, would fart him into oblivion.

Yamcha is looking as much "in trouble" as Freeza was when Vegeta fought him on Namek in his first form.


In terms of raw strength we don't know how strong they are in comparisson. L'k'l took out a (fixed) android 16 who we know was above imperfect cell level, with ease. He however can't seem to land a proper hit on Yamcha. Heck, only one attack landed on his body, because Yamcha blocked it with his knee. The hit yamcha landed on L'k'l however seemed to left a little damage at first glance. And we know Yamcha was strong enough to deal notable damage to a Cell Jr who was at the strength of post Cell-games Super Perfect Cell with a Majin boost. Granted, in conjunction with Tien, but it still counts for something.

I dunno. Unless there's going to be a second form (which i certainly hope is NOt the case), Im hoping Yamcha finally gets a much deserved win. So far I'm loving this version of Yamcha. Man deserves a bit of a spotlight after years of saibamen/explosion memes.




took me some searching, but page 732, chapter 33. Bardock has visions on two occasions, both during a fight. The first is while fighting Radditz in round 1, and the second is during his fight against Cold (in the chapter where Vegetto is sent into another dimension and returns and interrupts the fight).

I wasn't referring to the Potara themselves having the magic protection. I was referring to the witch the original kaioshin fused with. We know Old Kai has a bunch of knowledge about magic and magic items that apparantly was never passed on to the current Kaioshin(s?). Its therefor possible it was lost in time entirely, and thus that l'k'l isnt even aware of it.

But I agree with you that it is absolutely a remote one that I dont fully expect to be true. I just wouldn't find it too surprising if someone else managed to escape this magic. Like say.... XII. 1 Respuesta(s)

we dont know for certain Yamcha is the only one left moving.

Old Kaioshin is the result of a fusion of a Kaioshin and a witch... no telling if he's guarded from this magic or not. And regarding Yamcha's power, its impossible to guess. Even after so long, we have only the smallest of clues what his power kind of is; that he's stronger than 17 and 18... but its already established they grew (a lot?) weaker over time. And Piccolo (who was likely around Imperfect Cell levels of strength) one-shot this android 17, so thats not much of an indicator either.

The only indicator for yamcha's strength that we have is how the Cell Jr attacked their room during the Majin rebellion. That cell Jr was the weakest one, and one he made (I think) during his events of the Perfect Cell games (or right after), so around super perfect cell levels. It took the combined efforts of Yamcha, Videl, and Tien to subdue him, by weakening him and destroying his head.. and they werent holding back there. On top of that, we don't know how much of a boost the majin seal gave cell jr.


Im also going on a stretch by assuming the Cell jr was at, or close to, SSJ2 levels when he was created. But I now doubt that too after re-reading the pages. He never displayed the electric buzz that is typical of the SSJ2 aura.. which leads me to believe Yamcha, not holding back, was only able to damage a majinised cell jr with the help of others. From a surprise attack no less.

I daresay Yamcha is probably around (mastered) super saiyan form level, what Goku had during the cell games, maybe slightly above that, but not SSJ2 levels. 1 Respuesta(s)

"We'll be the only heroes"


....I'm sorry. What now?




pretty sure that vision Bardock had about Yamcha saying "you beat the others, but not me. Does that make me the strongest in the universe" will happen in this chapter. Seems to fit the story. 1 Respuesta(s)

Payback? Payback for what?? Yamcha spared 18. He gave her tips on the importance of maintenance. He's done nothing but look out for their interest.

I swear these two aren't just psychopaths, they're two shorted fuses away from being a reading lamp. Generally the assumption is that #16 served as their moral compass, and thats why they didnt go evil in U18 and U16.. but I dont buy it. They're just idiots. Bojack-levels of idiots. Honestly, at this point they deserve whatever bad stuff happens to them.



*edit

I have a question about android 17's power. Since he was restored back to life by Buu, would this mean his body was fixed in the same way 18's body was restored? Or would Buu have restored his body to the state it was in when he was destroyed by Piccolo during the Majin Rebellion? 3 Respuesta(s)

Are they... are they stupid? Did Dr Gero not give them proper processing power? Lack of RAM? No Space Best Buy around to upgrade?

Because holy SHIT this is the dumbest course of action these two idiots could possibly take. 1 Respuesta(s)

Let's go Yamcha! Show us that Sokidan!

Franquin... indeed, another god. To quote another comic book "hero", and I hope I say it correctly in french: m'enfin!


Toriyama will be deeply missed

An understandable interruption of the main series. Sadly, it's one I had hoped not to see for another decade.

Thank you for everything Mr Toriyama, you inspired entire generations of new mangaka, and children and teenagers worldwide.

Hmm... well 17 and 18 have a human baseline and shouldnt be active. But unless Yamcha is a full AI with his personality, he shouldnt be active either (human base and all).

Its still impressive any fighter is able to smack down 16 like that. I know he doesn't hold up post imperfect cell, but by a landslide this still puts him above the strengths of a majority of other fighters. People tend to forget that.


I dont doubt that this is the last straw that pushes Vegetto over the edge though. He already lost his temper by virtually every magic user; Babidi, Buu, Gast, XXI. And now he's actually caught off-guard and KILLED (presumably?) by another random magician? I dont expect L'K'L to last very long in the story but I feel this is going to have large consequences in short and long term.

Look at that, I decided to replay Mass Effect 3 today, and Im surprised by a cameo of EDI!

Ahh, the return of the "Why"-boner 1 Respuesta(s)

Guy reminds me of TFS's Puddin character they made in Xenoverse. It was a majuub character but still.

Im looking forwards to this but I swear to GOD if this turns out to be a filler/gag character.... 1 Respuesta(s)

You can be intelligent and still make stupid decisions. Which he most definitely is doing all the time.

Im re-reading the manga from time to time and god damn this shot is still one of the coolest ones out there.

"I saw what he becomes, and we need his power"


well that vision aged like the finest milk Bardock.

I have so many things to say. On the one hand, I love that this is actual development. This is the first thing akin to proper story in this special. It's a smart suggestion, and Bido manages to say this without angering Bojack right away by saying it advance it's an idea he probably wont like. aka he's asking for permission to say it. Clever move.


That said, I'm surprised Bojack even allows ideas.

"Try me" could EASILY be replaced by a "well shut your damn mouth then" considering thats his response to everything. Gotta admire the balls on Bido too here really for offering an idea (Bojack doesnt like ideas), saying he wouldnt like it (bojack kills anything he doesnt like), uttering the idea to finish the treatment (which might endanger Bojack's position of strength and he might consider it as such). Loving the artwork. But I still hate bojack XD. Mostly I'm just watching this to see how they end up beating Snower and Cold.

Jesus Christ, the life expectancy of a follower of Bojack is "until you breathe and he decides he hates that".

I love the art. I dislike swearing but I really, really, really fucking hate Bojack. No wonder TFS couldn't write a their abridged movie for him. There's just nothing to like, and everything to dislike. What a piece of stale mouldy bread. God.

I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza. 1 Respuesta(s)