Well time for Gast to meet the Androids. Man this universe is definitely a sad one for the zfighters

Question is now, who survived: probably only Gohan and maybe a human version of Trunks

Now we have confirmation. This special is about the Androids. I wonder if we'll get to see any of the Z-Fighters or not. I would prefer it if at least one is still alive, either Bulma or Gohan. Since it seems impossible that Imperfect Cell (even if his U7 version should be inherently weaker than any other iteration) can show up right now. Gast should only really have trouble with a 'Perfect' Cell, and supposedly Cell has threatened universe 7, somehow. Gast, in my opinion, needs an incentive to return to Earth (for U7 Buu arc and U7 Cell arc). Maybe, in the end, it will just be U7 Vegeta and U7 East Kaioshin that steer him back to Earth. Let's see.

Wow, Thorn has grown up quite a bit. Well, 10 years have passed since he joined Gast on his adventures. Still, it's nice to see him develop from a child into an (young) adult. I wonder how long Alcmenians live. There must be a reason why he's not around for the DBM tournament. Either he died or he just refused to attend, much like U18 Bulma.

Ok, Thorn info in panel 1 confuses me a bit. How does Gast know where West City is. Mhm, either he's actually been to Earth before, or he actually still knows from that one time he read Krillin's and Gohan's memory on Namek.

Why are there androids in this universe and not in Universe 8 as well? Or are there androids there too but they are irrelevant to the plot?

Guys guys guys. All these comments about Gohan that should be alive. Relax! To be honest, even though I’d like to see him alive, there is no chance that this version of Gohan has survived the androids. The future Gohan that we know got a potential unlock from Guru, several zenkai’s in namek and fought Frieza. This Gohan did nothing after the fight against Vegeta. Most likely when he returned he abonded his training and went to school all these years, until the androids appeared. U7 Gohan’s power at this point could be even weaker then Zarbon, while the future Gohan we knew was atleast as strong as Namek arc SSJ Goku. So no, Gohan should not be live.

If Gohan survive the Androids attack in this universe, he should be attending the tournament along with Gast in hope of winning the right to use Dragonballs, sadly he is not.

Yamcha is dead in his infamous dead scene, and Vegeta is not living on earth, so we won't see any version of Trunk that we know.

Maybe we get to see Yagirobe or Master Roshi as story-telling-NPC.

May not have been the Androids OR the heart virus.
In the last Gast special, we saw Vegeta become a Super Saiyan. I say odds are he came to Earth, and took his revenge on Goku. If I was EXTREMELY optimistic I'd say Vegeta helped train Goku, Gohan and Krillin to help fight Gast and the Androids won anyway. Either way, I hope this fleshes out Gast's timeline a little more.

There's crumbs of evidence that these are androids 19 and 20, or any other, not cyborgs 17 and 18.
One, the page preview that showed up like a few weeks ago and presented us with two androids of new design.
Two, it says objects, robots would count as objects, while humans with cybernetic enhancements would not.

thezen_rabupyu was saying: Did the androids (cyborgs) defeat Babidi et co. as well? Or will that be up to Gast? Depends how long it's been since Namek I guess (what is the current timeframe for this special again?).

We know Gast beat his version of Frieza, Cell and Buu. It was mentioned on his debut by someone who told us he beat Frieza, a lizard creature and a pink demon in his universe. His response to Cell Jr and manhandling of Zen Buu with magic shows he's entirely capable of it.

The real question is whether his androids or his Cell would be anywhere near as strong as the normal timeline. Cell would lack the Frost Demon DNA that formed the bulk of his early power base, since his move set prior was considered sub-par by Piccolo, and his DNA would just be human, saiyan and namekian from, at best, Saiyan saga fighters.
Would Gero pursue the lofty heights of 16/17/18 for his androids when the strongest guy he'd possibly experienced would be Oozaru Vegeta at roughly Ginyu's level? Goku, even with his maxed out kaioken wouldn't be remotely close to any form of Frieza since there's no gravity chamber/zenkai abuse so surely Gero would be happy if his androids were basically just Ginyu level or so with infinite energy since that'd be far outside his expectations of what they should do.
After all, he only started making stronger androids than 8 once Goku destroyed the Red Ribbon Army and he was always the intended goal of Gero's machines.

J.I.L was saying: South_Ferry was saying: so ghast is slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku?
Probably more so equal to him (during the Buu saga). Dude is out-classed to Jenemba.

W DBM power-scailing.
Nah he is clearly way stronger than Buu era Goku. Ssj 3 Goku wouldn’t have been able to handle the whole raichi fight and wouldn’t need buu’s overkill kill traps.



This is was all a scheme to get more namekjin feet pics!

I love Janeen’s he has such style. Shame we didn’t see his rip off buu form.

Since he turned an ogre toy tetsuboo into a sword I wonder if he has a similar hellish origin. Like he probably isn’t a brand new being but an ancient evil conjured by the dragon or the dragon just fused all the karmic pollutants from hell and he nabbed it on the way here.

so ghast is slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku?

beeruz was saying: South_Ferry was saying: What do you guys think of Goku winning the tournament against xxi in the end? Because it looks like Gast will lose this

It is both cliche and fitting for this manga, it would be a true celebration of dragon ball. Goku finding out how to save the day like he always does, it would be cool.
Goku is the main character after all so I would enjoy it.All of these alternative universe's wouldn't exist without him or him being altered in some way(except for 2 and 5) so maybe the could explore that point more.

Except for 1-3, 7, 9 and 10*. And maybe 13 and 19?

kaybag was saying: J.I.L was saying: It does bring up an interesting point. If Bra is the daughter of Goku and Vegeta... why is her nature so carnal? Like, we just except DBM's take on Bra being a real grey character. But why was she like that? Gohan and goten are pure hearted, and Trunks was never as agressive as bra. So why is Bra seem more like the natural daughter of U13 Kakarot and Vegeta, rather then main timeline goku and vegeta?

Because vegeta was stilll naughty and he raised her differently., Than u18 vegeta did the rest.

To be fair... He had already made his sacrifice to try to save his family, the world, and Goku, knowing he'd 100% go to hell (confirmed by Piccolo). He had already accepted he would be forever fused with Goku to protect those same things. The only other epiphany we saw after that was him finally admitting how great Goku was and that Goku was the best warrior at the time. I mean you're not wrong though, he still wasn't pure of heart or anything, definitely still had some "naughtiness" I'll give ya that.

Salagir's characterization of Vegetto hasn't made a ton of sense though imo. Vegetto is not "just" Goku and Vegeta, he is Vegetto. He is an entirely new being born into reality. He isn't more Goku or more Vegeta, he's the perfect combination of both in all facets. All that said, his mental issues can arise from him having so much absurd power, being born from magic, and going years without any competition while loving a good fight. This tournament also hasn't turned out anything like he thought it would. He lost in the second round because of magic, which he considers a cheap trick. He then had to deal with being subdued by magic in the most degrading manner, everyone demonizing him, literally standing over him, with some acting OOC to do so, when he was trying to protect them from Bra. All of this while he's the only one that's personally witnessed what she's capable of even without majinization. Plus add in the starving, now not even being at full power, and the reason for the latter being by magic means in a degrading manner AGAIN. After all of that, it will be interesting to see what finally breaks the dam.

I'm glad that this chapter is U9 Elder Kai's vision.


I'm glad that on DBM we are going to see more of U13 Mystic Raditz and the other U13 Saiyans.

Does this DBM chapter being a vision confirm that U9 Elder Kai has a multiversal divination power? I'm asking because U9 Elder Kai was able to see the events happening on Universe 13.

beeruz was saying: kakarot is immortal lol he'd just get up in a couple hours and kill vegeta.Yes, however that plan would still fail to defeat U5 XXI even if U13 Vegeta was killed, which is why U9 Elder Kai considered that plan a failure.

hetap was saying: I agree this was pretty long for one big "what if" filler. But I still prefer that to it being reality.I concur.

A bro tag team we could've got in canon, but was never to be. It really sucks sometimes.

Either way, still clinging to the prediction that Vegeta's SSJ3 will drop out as soon as they start fighting, wounded as he is and with how fast the form chugs energy.

I was thinking it would be harder for a character to be more pathetic than DBM Vegito, but Kakaditz is a strong contender.
Showed up like he was going to be an absolute menace, talked some shit, got visibly wounded by somebody who shouldn't even be on the same dimension of power as him, continually failed to oneshot said guy who should be about as powerful as an ant to him, then he gets defused with ease.



Gogetto was saying: To everyone asking why old kai didn't defuse vegetto: he clearly states here that their fusion hasn't stabilized yet. Implying defusion can only be done with a fresh fusion. This would also give us a justification for why vegetto defused inside buu in u18. Not too bad of an explanation as to how defusion works in a world where dbs' retcon doesn't exist (also I think this is a better explanation overall. Props to the writers on that)
A better explanation? Props to the writers? It's full of plot holes, Old Kai himself is a fusion that he doesn't WANT to be. Kibitoshin is also a fusion that he could've easily undone! Why didn't he just tell Goku that if he's fast enough to beat Buu, he'd be able to undo the fusion?

Despite the less than ideal artwork and this almost certainly being a dream scenario,
I really like that middle panel of SSJ 3 Vegeta and Mystic Kakaditz facing each other.
I only wish it was solely Raditz taking on Vegeta.

Honestly this is good because Kakaditz while he is alone also doesn't possess the desire to rule the Universe like Vegeta does (Since Vegeta doesn't care) and plus if Raditz had been alone with Kakorot he would have died eventually leaving an immortal kakorot on his own. This way Kakorot is no longer in the Universe unhinged but also Raditz and Kakorot will likely (Just like Raditz planned too) not rule the universe.
So Universe 13 is most likely saved from Tyranny (Except in a small local area.

Apparently still crazy. I wonder if can go super saiyan.

And here's the crux of the issue of elaborating on the future, Gohan not getting strong enough to beat the androids in hindsight is a really really weird plot idea. The Androids arc in the original manga is a very confused arc due to editor meddling. Why is Gohan too weak in the future despite training to defeat them for over a decade? He just is.
It's something that you're better off just trying to ignore because Future Gohan simply makes no sense considering "Gohan gets angry and can easily win" is the whole climax of the Androids arc.
Any sort of elaboration on that plot hole is just going to widen it, so you really are better off just ignoring it.

J.I.L was saying: BLM! (Look at the floating paper in the upper right corner).


It says U18. It's just upside down, idiot. Don't bring a real life terrorist organization into DB.

see guys? That's why you shouldn't simp

Daiko was saying: Lucas was saying: Yeah, they don't seem to like 17. Which is annoying, since he's one of my favorite characters. Loved his surprisingly big role in DBS. Shame DBM doesn't have any iteration of him that does him justice
Yeah. The whole "The future Androids were degraded in power" was always dumb when the manga already gave the explanation that they simply never used even half their full power against Future Gohan and Future Trunks. Felt like an excuse to dunk on them for no good reason.

"The whole "The future Androids were degraded in power" was always dumb when the manga already gave the explanation that they simply never used even half their full power against Future Gohan and Future Trunks."

The manga did a poor job clarifying this (pretty sure #17 and #18 didn't hold back when they actually killed Gohan and beat Trunks up, Trunks did say he put up a fight with them while in the present timeline he got curbstomped alongside Vegeta and Piccolo) so either interpretation could be true and I don't think it's even really worth complaining about.

#17 and #18 in U18 are different than U12 character-wise so it wouldn't be much surprise if they were also different power-wise and energy-wise. I think Salagir's interpretation is reasonable (though it could also be wrong).

Besides, all this complaining about Salagir dumping on characters just because they lose a fight. I'd get it if you were talking about Frieza and even Vegetto getting dunked on but a whole lot of characters got dunked on at least once in DBM. Hell even Cell got dunked on hard twice (once by someone weaker than him cause Cell chose to be a dimwit). Nobody complained about #16 getting dunked on just a couple pages ago when he never got any good moments in DBM to shine.

And more importantly, #17 in U14 (and #18) are an ass, just teenage punks with more power than they deserve, almost reminds me of Bojack. Why shouldn't they get dunked on? #17 in DBS to his credit was far more pragmatic so his victory in the ToP actually feels somewhat earned even if it's bullshit that he was able to keep up with SSJB Goku. #17 in DBZ is so stupid he fell right into Cell's plans like a fish to a hook even with #16 trying to keep Cell away from him and warning him (and even Piccolo told him to freaking run).

UltraExtream was saying: [quote from="Lucas" id=268225]ZGrssd was saying: That seems about right.
This Yamcha is a android.
In a Universe where earth was occupied by Cooler.

We don't know how strong they had to become.

Wait, what? Where did that come from? I don't remember seeing that their Earth was occupied by Cooler in any of the U9 specials we got. As far as I know, we didn't even get that many in the first place. Which is a shame, because I'd love to learn more about U9.




Yes Coolers power extends to the Earth as mentioned in this page

https://w...582.html#h_read

Idk about Cooler occupying the Earth and if he did, his reign was probably very short-lived.

Videl is saying "Ho no?"
That was in the original too. That's kinda strange.
It's always gonna funny that Gohan after seeing what happened to his Videl in the 25th got to see Pan literally DIE in this tournament.
Why didn't he tell her to give up, anyway? He KNEW that this was going to happen.

Not surprising that the other Androids are kicking around. Hopefully Yamcha can rein them in.

Also, RIP Akira Toriyama. If not for him, none of us would even be on this site. Hope he's in Other World relaxing with King Kai.

J.I.L was saying: ZenBuu was saying: J.I.L was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: DrewSaga was saying:

But what I really disagree on is the idea that Uub curb-stomped Goku. Maybe so for a brief moment (during the Transcended Kaioken, you can't argue that Uub had a shot with the regular Max Kaioken when Goku kept up good enough), but that's no good if your ultimately destroying your own body, that is literally a textbook definition of a losing strategy in a fight. Which means Uub winning against SSJ3 Goku was not in the cards (it was awesome, I was rooting for Uub there but Kaioken is even worse than SSJ3 in terms of negative effects on the body). I do think that said Goku and Vegeta could have demonstrated a hint of their newfound power during their fights though. But Uub would have had to be buffed up a bit for Goku to consider that option when SSJ3 was sufficient as it was.

I also disagree with that fight being disappointing, wasn't really that bad (though the 3rd Round fights were amazing in comparison, even Bra vs Cold), but yeah, the Quarter Finals overall sucked. Like Vegeta vs Cell was technically the worst fight but at least it was a real fight (somewhat), then there was Buu vs XXI and Bra vs Gast. I guess Goku vs Uub is a bit underwhelming in retrospect when you consider Goku vs Vegeta and how Goku held back against Uub.

Honestly, I sort of hate how Uub and basically every pure human character (who desperately tried to grasp onto relevance but ended up failing utterly regardless) needs to spam the Kaioken in DBM, you'd think of all people, the boy who was born with all of the potential of Buu himself would end up not needing to rely on such a technique, but he's honestly been treated as sort of just a joke here. Hell, the first few fights had "Uub gets his arm cut off as a funny haha" as a recurring gag.
Speaking of Uub brings me to another EoZ character, where I don't really agree with either of the Pans being as weak as they are in DBM, either. I'm fairly certain Pan at EoZ at Age 4 was strongly implied to be stronger than the 17 year old Goten. I sorta feel like U16 Pan losing to Bojack was especially silly considering she's what, 3 years older than Gohan was when Gohan fought Cell? Feel like with the way DBM seems to handle stronger parents = stronger offspring for the case of Saiyans, Pan shouldn't be anywhere close to as weak as she is.
Especially U18 Pan, who is for some reason basically a joke compared to U16 Pan.
Wish Pan got to do anything cool ever. Closest she got to being cool was giving Bra the cold shoulder and that didn't last long either.
Pan being as strong as she is very fitting. Remember, she's only 1/4 Sayain. We even wonderdered if quarterlings could even transform. Plus on top of that, she's been training in times of peace. So her being as powerful as she is makes sense.

For U18 being far weaker then her U16 counterpart... that also makes sense. Because Pan U16 goes on space missions, plus is around Vegito and BRA which makes her stronger... then a relaxed Goku whos primary focus is Uub.

Uub power kinda makes sense with conservative power scailing. Raw untrained UUB was equal to base EOZ goku. Trained up, I guess they interpret Uubs base being stronger then base goku, but weaker then ssj. I'd wager around Piccolo's level. So it makes sense he needs a strong kaioken to be relevant.



DrewSaga was saying: Shoot, I posted by accident when I could have edited, my bad mods.
Hah - the Mods, wether human or AI, shadow banned my comment theorizing the events going to happen. I just assume it was because of a (DBM) link I put in.
What are you talking about? None of your comments got deleted latety and we can't even shadow ban. Why are you making this up?
Nope. I have a comment that is registered on my history, but does not appear on this (thus any) thread.

I think it's because I put an DBM LINK... like raw. I don't know how to encrypt to where the link only shows the page number.

I think the alogrithim shadowed banned my comment because of that.

are you referring to the bardock flashback comment? on page2301?

Because I can see it.

J.I.L was saying: ZenBuu was saying: J.I.L was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: DrewSaga was saying:

But what I really disagree on is the idea that Uub curb-stomped Goku. Maybe so for a brief moment (during the Transcended Kaioken, you can't argue that Uub had a shot with the regular Max Kaioken when Goku kept up good enough), but that's no good if your ultimately destroying your own body, that is literally a textbook definition of a losing strategy in a fight. Which means Uub winning against SSJ3 Goku was not in the cards (it was awesome, I was rooting for Uub there but Kaioken is even worse than SSJ3 in terms of negative effects on the body). I do think that said Goku and Vegeta could have demonstrated a hint of their newfound power during their fights though. But Uub would have had to be buffed up a bit for Goku to consider that option when SSJ3 was sufficient as it was.

I also disagree with that fight being disappointing, wasn't really that bad (though the 3rd Round fights were amazing in comparison, even Bra vs Cold), but yeah, the Quarter Finals overall sucked. Like Vegeta vs Cell was technically the worst fight but at least it was a real fight (somewhat), then there was Buu vs XXI and Bra vs Gast. I guess Goku vs Uub is a bit underwhelming in retrospect when you consider Goku vs Vegeta and how Goku held back against Uub.

Honestly, I sort of hate how Uub and basically every pure human character (who desperately tried to grasp onto relevance but ended up failing utterly regardless) needs to spam the Kaioken in DBM, you'd think of all people, the boy who was born with all of the potential of Buu himself would end up not needing to rely on such a technique, but he's honestly been treated as sort of just a joke here. Hell, the first few fights had "Uub gets his arm cut off as a funny haha" as a recurring gag.
Speaking of Uub brings me to another EoZ character, where I don't really agree with either of the Pans being as weak as they are in DBM, either. I'm fairly certain Pan at EoZ at Age 4 was strongly implied to be stronger than the 17 year old Goten. I sorta feel like U16 Pan losing to Bojack was especially silly considering she's what, 3 years older than Gohan was when Gohan fought Cell? Feel like with the way DBM seems to handle stronger parents = stronger offspring for the case of Saiyans, Pan shouldn't be anywhere close to as weak as she is.
Especially U18 Pan, who is for some reason basically a joke compared to U16 Pan.
Wish Pan got to do anything cool ever. Closest she got to being cool was giving Bra the cold shoulder and that didn't last long either.
Pan being as strong as she is very fitting. Remember, she's only 1/4 Sayain. We even wonderdered if quarterlings could even transform. Plus on top of that, she's been training in times of peace. So her being as powerful as she is makes sense.

For U18 being far weaker then her U16 counterpart... that also makes sense. Because Pan U16 goes on space missions, plus is around Vegito and BRA which makes her stronger... then a relaxed Goku whos primary focus is Uub.

Uub power kinda makes sense with conservative power scailing. Raw untrained UUB was equal to base EOZ goku. Trained up, I guess they interpret Uubs base being stronger then base goku, but weaker then ssj. I'd wager around Piccolo's level. So it makes sense he needs a strong kaioken to be relevant.



DrewSaga was saying: Shoot, I posted by accident when I could have edited, my bad mods.
Hah - the Mods, wether human or AI, shadow banned my comment theorizing the events going to happen. I just assume it was because of a (DBM) link I put in.
What are you talking about? None of your comments got deleted latety and we can't even shadow ban. Why are you making this up?
Nope. I have a comment that is registered on my history, but does not appear on this (thus any) thread.

I think it's because I put an DBM LINK... like raw. I don't know how to encrypt to where the link only shows the page number.

I think the alogrithim shadowed banned my comment because of that.
Just write "Page [number]" (without the quotes). E.g. Page 2305

J.I.L was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: DrewSaga was saying:

But what I really disagree on is the idea that Uub curb-stomped Goku. Maybe so for a brief moment (during the Transcended Kaioken, you can't argue that Uub had a shot with the regular Max Kaioken when Goku kept up good enough), but that's no good if your ultimately destroying your own body, that is literally a textbook definition of a losing strategy in a fight. Which means Uub winning against SSJ3 Goku was not in the cards (it was awesome, I was rooting for Uub there but Kaioken is even worse than SSJ3 in terms of negative effects on the body). I do think that said Goku and Vegeta could have demonstrated a hint of their newfound power during their fights though. But Uub would have had to be buffed up a bit for Goku to consider that option when SSJ3 was sufficient as it was.

I also disagree with that fight being disappointing, wasn't really that bad (though the 3rd Round fights were amazing in comparison, even Bra vs Cold), but yeah, the Quarter Finals overall sucked. Like Vegeta vs Cell was technically the worst fight but at least it was a real fight (somewhat), then there was Buu vs XXI and Bra vs Gast. I guess Goku vs Uub is a bit underwhelming in retrospect when you consider Goku vs Vegeta and how Goku held back against Uub.

Honestly, I sort of hate how Uub and basically every pure human character (who desperately tried to grasp onto relevance but ended up failing utterly regardless) needs to spam the Kaioken in DBM, you'd think of all people, the boy who was born with all of the potential of Buu himself would end up not needing to rely on such a technique, but he's honestly been treated as sort of just a joke here. Hell, the first few fights had "Uub gets his arm cut off as a funny haha" as a recurring gag.
Speaking of Uub brings me to another EoZ character, where I don't really agree with either of the Pans being as weak as they are in DBM, either. I'm fairly certain Pan at EoZ at Age 4 was strongly implied to be stronger than the 17 year old Goten. I sorta feel like U16 Pan losing to Bojack was especially silly considering she's what, 3 years older than Gohan was when Gohan fought Cell? Feel like with the way DBM seems to handle stronger parents = stronger offspring for the case of Saiyans, Pan shouldn't be anywhere close to as weak as she is.
Especially U18 Pan, who is for some reason basically a joke compared to U16 Pan.
Wish Pan got to do anything cool ever. Closest she got to being cool was giving Bra the cold shoulder and that didn't last long either.
Pan being as strong as she is very fitting. Remember, she's only 1/4 Sayain. We even wonderdered if quarterlings could even transform. Plus on top of that, she's been training in times of peace. So her being as powerful as she is makes sense.

For U18 being far weaker then her U16 counterpart... that also makes sense. Because Pan U16 goes on space missions, plus is around Vegito and BRA which makes her stronger... then a relaxed Goku whos primary focus is Uub.

Uub power kinda makes sense with conservative power scailing. Raw untrained UUB was equal to base EOZ goku. Trained up, I guess they interpret Uubs base being stronger then base goku, but weaker then ssj. I'd wager around Piccolo's level. So it makes sense he needs a strong kaioken to be relevant.



DrewSaga was saying: Shoot, I posted by accident when I could have edited, my bad mods.
Hah - the Mods, wether human or AI, shadow banned my comment theorizing the events going to happen. I just assume it was because of a (DBM) link I put in.
What are you talking about? None of your comments got deleted latety and we can't even shadow ban. Why are you making this up?

J.I.L was saying: WukongTheMighty was saying: DrewSaga was saying:

But what I really disagree on is the idea that Uub curb-stomped Goku. Maybe so for a brief moment (during the Transcended Kaioken, you can't argue that Uub had a shot with the regular Max Kaioken when Goku kept up good enough), but that's no good if your ultimately destroying your own body, that is literally a textbook definition of a losing strategy in a fight. Which means Uub winning against SSJ3 Goku was not in the cards (it was awesome, I was rooting for Uub there but Kaioken is even worse than SSJ3 in terms of negative effects on the body). I do think that said Goku and Vegeta could have demonstrated a hint of their newfound power during their fights though. But Uub would have had to be buffed up a bit for Goku to consider that option when SSJ3 was sufficient as it was.

I also disagree with that fight being disappointing, wasn't really that bad (though the 3rd Round fights were amazing in comparison, even Bra vs Cold), but yeah, the Quarter Finals overall sucked. Like Vegeta vs Cell was technically the worst fight but at least it was a real fight (somewhat), then there was Buu vs XXI and Bra vs Gast. I guess Goku vs Uub is a bit underwhelming in retrospect when you consider Goku vs Vegeta and how Goku held back against Uub.

Honestly, I sort of hate how Uub and basically every pure human character (who desperately tried to grasp onto relevance but ended up failing utterly regardless) needs to spam the Kaioken in DBM, you'd think of all people, the boy who was born with all of the potential of Buu himself would end up not needing to rely on such a technique, but he's honestly been treated as sort of just a joke here. Hell, the first few fights had "Uub gets his arm cut off as a funny haha" as a recurring gag.
Speaking of Uub brings me to another EoZ character, where I don't really agree with either of the Pans being as weak as they are in DBM, either. I'm fairly certain Pan at EoZ at Age 4 was strongly implied to be stronger than the 17 year old Goten. I sorta feel like U16 Pan losing to Bojack was especially silly considering she's what, 3 years older than Gohan was when Gohan fought Cell? Feel like with the way DBM seems to handle stronger parents = stronger offspring for the case of Saiyans, Pan shouldn't be anywhere close to as weak as she is.
Especially U18 Pan, who is for some reason basically a joke compared to U16 Pan.
Wish Pan got to do anything cool ever. Closest she got to being cool was giving Bra the cold shoulder and that didn't last long either.
Pan being as strong as she is very fitting. Remember, she's only 1/4 Sayain. We even wonderdered if quarterlings could even transform. Plus on top of that, she's been training in times of peace. So her being as powerful as she is makes sense.

For U18 being far weaker then her U16 counterpart... that also makes sense. Because Pan U16 goes on space missions, plus is around Vegito and BRA which makes her stronger... then a relaxed Goku whos primary focus is Uub.

Uub power kinda makes sense with conservative power scailing. Raw untrained UUB was equal to base EOZ goku. Trained up, I guess they interpret Uubs base being stronger then base goku, but weaker then ssj. I'd wager around Piccolo's level. So it makes sense he needs a strong kaioken to be relevant.



DrewSaga was saying: Shoot, I posted by accident when I could have edited, my bad mods.
Hah - the Mods, wether human or AI, shadow banned my comment theorizing the events going to happen. I just assume it was because of a (DBM) link I put in.
What are you talking about? None of your comments got deleted latety and we can't even shadow ban. Why are you making this up?

DrewSaga was saying:

But what I really disagree on is the idea that Uub curb-stomped Goku. Maybe so for a brief moment (during the Transcended Kaioken, you can't argue that Uub had a shot with the regular Max Kaioken when Goku kept up good enough), but that's no good if your ultimately destroying your own body, that is literally a textbook definition of a losing strategy in a fight. Which means Uub winning against SSJ3 Goku was not in the cards (it was awesome, I was rooting for Uub there but Kaioken is even worse than SSJ3 in terms of negative effects on the body). I do think that said Goku and Vegeta could have demonstrated a hint of their newfound power during their fights though. But Uub would have had to be buffed up a bit for Goku to consider that option when SSJ3 was sufficient as it was.

I also disagree with that fight being disappointing, wasn't really that bad (though the 3rd Round fights were amazing in comparison, even Bra vs Cold), but yeah, the Quarter Finals overall sucked. Like Vegeta vs Cell was technically the worst fight but at least it was a real fight (somewhat), then there was Buu vs XXI and Bra vs Gast. I guess Goku vs Uub is a bit underwhelming in retrospect when you consider Goku vs Vegeta and how Goku held back against Uub.

Honestly, I sort of hate how Uub and basically every pure human character (who desperately tried to grasp onto relevance but ended up failing utterly regardless) needs to spam the Kaioken in DBM, you'd think of all people, the boy who was born with all of the potential of Buu himself would end up not needing to rely on such a technique, but he's honestly been treated as sort of just a joke here. Hell, the first few fights had "Uub gets his arm cut off as a funny haha" as a recurring gag.
Speaking of Uub brings me to another EoZ character, where I don't really agree with either of the Pans being as weak as they are in DBM, either. I'm fairly certain Pan at EoZ at Age 4 was strongly implied to be stronger than the 17 year old Goten. I sorta feel like U16 Pan losing to Bojack was especially silly considering she's what, 3 years older than Gohan was when Gohan fought Cell? Feel like with the way DBM seems to handle stronger parents = stronger offspring for the case of Saiyans, Pan shouldn't be anywhere close to as weak as she is.
Especially U18 Pan, who is for some reason basically a joke compared to U16 Pan.
Wish Pan got to do anything cool ever. Closest she got to being cool was giving Bra the cold shoulder and that didn't last long either.

Shoot, I posted by accident when I could have edited, my bad mods.

Reminds me of how unimpressive and downright insignificant Kakarot aka Goku actually is in Universe 3. In a thriving Saiyan society, without the certain conditions like in U18 or U13, Kakarot would be nothing more than a (below average) regular soldier/fighter like Raditz.

J.I.L was saying: This should have been a mini-comic, and Bojack vs Cell of universe 17 be made a special. But... whatever. Onto universe 3 mini-comics, and back to the story!
I don't agree. This special is awesome! Besides, we already saw U17 Cell versus U6 Bojack. It was no contest.

J.I.L was saying: Oh hel yeah! A special from an interesting universe, finally.

Though all things said, the art in this chapter was awesome. Much kudos to the illustrator(s). Did a great job.

But on to universe 3, and then back to the story!


YellNinja1600 was saying: Michelrpg was saying: I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza.


Michelrpg was saying: I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza.


Michelrpg was saying: I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza.


As far as U9 there is a special fan manga from someone cool named chewys who pretty much covers the universe 9 story. Right now they are in the ginyu force saga. But they all know Kaio Ken.
Link to the manga?
Just to avoid confusion, we get 3 minicomics about U3, not a special.

Go to Amilova.com for Chewys comic about U3/U9. But be aware, although it's similar to Salagir's idea of these universes, this is not canon to DBM and mostly copy paste.

Michelrpg was saying: I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza.


Michelrpg was saying: I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza.


Michelrpg was saying: I applaud anyone trying to give content to Bojack but really there's just... so much nothing about this guy. He has no charisma, he has no great design, he has no presence. He's like a boring Hulk: "hur hur, Hulk smash, less talk".

I truly hope this is the last of the Bojack specials. We've had enough of him, and enough of Broly. Im still hoping to see more of Universe 9 and how they beat Piccolo and the Saiyans etc, as well as the universe of Prince Vegeta and how they managed to kill Freeza.


As far as U9 there is a special fan manga from someone cool named chewys who pretty much covers the universe 9 story. Right now they are in the ginyu force saga. But they all know Kaio Ken.

What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.

DarkBuster was saying: ZenBuu was saying: DarkBuster was saying: son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.
Criticizing is always fair? If it is constructive, then yes. But I assume you don't read the comments here often. Because some people here are rude af and just complain for the sake of it. Saying "this shit sucks; it's so boring; go back to the main story finally" is nothing a writer is profiting from. Besides, Salagir doesn't care for those comments, he can do whatever he wants. It's his story.

And as it's already been said, you can come back in some months, because we won't suddenly get a different chapter just because some people complain about Bojack. It is what it is.
And yet that's not what I'm doing; I'm not just saying "this shit sucks" and running off into the sunset. I'm genuinely curious why there is so much focus being put on a character like bojack, who, frankly, never had anything going for him, even in his own movie. Especially when he, again, has no further relevance to the DBM plot, and the most interesting part of his universe (the random girls with magic powers) still don't have a drop of backstory to them.

It's genuinely puzzling, this direction. I'm not demanding that it be changed, but I feel like saying the comic and its specials could benefit by focusing on actually relevant subject matter in future is a totally fair criticism.


Iirc they've mentioned that the side chapters are begun years before they are released, and put out page by page upon their completion on a completely volunteer basis where the artists choose which universe(s) they wish to do the story on. Which would mean that the artists who are DB fans themselves have interest in Bojack and his gang, and I'm ngl I'm interested in him too, at the very least found him more interesting than strictly Z Boo, and Freeza.

DarkBuster was saying: son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.


DarkBuster was saying: son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.


DarkBuster was saying: son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.

I've got to agree with you. I almost always praise this comic, but Bojack gets an inordinate amount of love, but I feel like there's nothing to him. His death with the other ladies was the only thing it really needed.

Finally we come to the Bojack Special. Seriously curious how the group went from 27 members down to 5. Mostly due to Snower of course, but still curious to see how it happens.

Goku Yellow was saying: Don't understand why ya'll are obsessed with Bojack. Just not really an interesting character or universe.Considering how almost the entire DB fandom ignores and hates Bojack, I don't understand the "ya'll are obsessed with Bojack" comment. DBM is practically the only place Bojack gets some screentime. It's like criticizing Salagir for why he doesn't join the fandom bandwagon. Similarly, why he doesn't hate Raditz or Yamcha like the fandom supposedly pretends to and instead, actually gives them screentime (in U9 & U13).

Huh, no more cape for Prince Vegeta? Shaaaaaame.


Fun to see all the different reactions. But... I think Bra misunderstands this transformation. Its still technically harnessing the power of the Super Saiyan state, but it minimises the overflow of energy. This wouldnt disregard the "violent tendencies", she would still need to work on that. Also, I thought she just learned to get SSJ2 under control like, a day ago?


Cell never having reached this transformation kind of shows that, while he may have inherited some personality traits and techniques, he knows nothing about actually improving or developing himself. He purely relied on increasing his raw strength alone.


And then.. sigh... Vegetto. I maintain this makes zero sense. He, of everyone there, should feel happy and excited about this; a new form he can aim for, something to release him from his boredom. If Vegeta and Goku reached it, surely he could too. I understand he's irritated about the lack of food and being cheesed out of the tournament, but damn. This... is a direction I dont really agree with from a logical point of view.

I really like the idea of how the people who were components of Vegetto can also know and use Vegetto's technique afterwards.

I wonder if Vegeta already had the energy sword in his mind in the Buu Arc, or even as a secret technique in his backup, or if he learned it after Vegetto split up and thus has Vegetto's memory of how to use it. This indeed raises some interesting questions to speculate on. I Like it.

Goku is either resigning to defeat, or he gonna do an ass pull.

I wanted to know what kind of connection they're using for her to play online with a different universe!!! xD
Also, make your mind DBM! Is it Gast or Ghast?!!! xD

PrinceOfTheHood was saying: Dragonball XENOVERSE Three, when ?? ^.^
Don't know if this game will be published or not with how well Xenoverse is doing.

Buuuut I heard there will a DBM game soon! xD



Art by Asura: link

Paradise Lost was saying: Still think Kakarot should have lost to Son Gohan
Not really.Gohan died to oozaru goku in the original so why would it be different in u13.

Was there no evil kakarot in this timeline, or did Gohan kill him?
beeruz was saying: Paradise Lost was saying: Still think Kakarot should have lost to Son Gohan
Not really.Gohan died to oozaru goku in the original so why would it be different in u13.
I think that it's implied that Gohan had dealt with the Oozaru a couple times before finally being killed by it, as he warned Goku about it. By the time he was finally killed by it, Goku was older. My headcanon has always been that Gohan died because he most likely held back, not wanting to hurt his grandson.

but then again a more savage Kakarot might have been more powerful even at a younger age

My question is, why did this fight piss off Vegito?

So now it's been said that truly was the end. Wow. Yeah show the end of the fight before the actual fight. That's great writing right there. Or ya know, you could do it like Cell vs Goku, make it very clear it was hard for the spectators to follow, but... ya know... still SHOW THE FIGHT. All tension and drama gone. I guess we could hold out hope that after this flashback, Vegeta still gets up, but the Varga didn't even start a countdown so who knows. Honestly I doubt that will happen, cause this is just par for the course.

So let's get this straight. Out of all the quarter-finals and semi-finals, the most anticipated and hyped up fights in the comic... one was an actual fight, albeit a little disappointing with not a single ki attack or signature move, one was the ONLY main chapter not drawn by the main artist, one wasn't an actual fight but just snippets from Bra's mind, one was a fight between two of the most powerful magicians where they could have gotten really creative and done a lot of new things yet it wasn't even a fight, and the last showed us the and of the fight before the actual fight. So out of all of them, only one of them was an actual fight drawn by the main artist. Yet we spent years on the Majin rebellion. What a joke.

and yep. Whole fight is done. What a waste.

Glad we’re going to see some reactions and possibly even a flashback but all suspense is killed.

Bad move Salagir.

Is that Universe 18 Pan talking to Vegito?

InertBallZ was saying: kaybag was saying: and yep. Whole fight is done. What a waste.

Glad we’re going to see some reactions and possibly even a flashback but all suspense is killed.

Bad move Salagir.


This is the kind of thing a person says when they forget that we are watching a story unfold one page at a time, 3 times a week AT BEST. The suspense was built all along, and paid off in the last 2 pages. We don't even know if Vegeta is using a shadow clone or some nonsense yet, but even if he is KO this was the most simple and elegant way of showcasing the level of power he and Goku just reached. Super doesn't avoid this flaw - it's always creating new power-ups then having our heros slug it out the same as if they never moved past SSJ1. It's lost meaning. Not every fight needs to be standard issue fight choreography

We spent years... literal YEARS... on the Majin Rebellion, with Bra going around kicking the absolute hell out of everyone, but it's somehow good story telling to skip one of the most evenly-matched and highly anticipated fights? The entire point of Dragonball is the fights. Salagir LITERALLY said a few pages ago that while yes DBM has an underlying plot, the whole point is to see fights. Yet so far, out of the most highly anticipated and hyped up fights (besides Vegetto vs Broly), only ONE was an actual battle drawn by Asura/the main artist, yet even that one didn't have any ki blasts or blast struggles. Goku has only used his signature blast once in this entire tournament, meanwhile Vegeta has only used one of his signature moves. I don't remember a single Big Bang attack or Final Flash, only a quick Galick Gun against Trunks. Which is absolutely crazy to me and goes completely against the nature of what made this comic popular in the first place. In all likelihood, if this comic had all new original characters, and had writing and fights like this for some of its most popular characters, it would be considered a joke and hardly anyone would read it.

That's not why Super is bad. Super is bad because there is absolutely no logical consistency with no logical power scaling, which for as much flack as people give DBZ, at least it was consistent with its power scaling. It didn't have Krillin somehow suddenly being thousands of times more powerful and being able to fight off Buu. DBZ also didn't constantly throw in new forms with simple color changes like Super does. DBZ actually had interesting villains too. Super also has very inconsistent art, even more-so than DBZ, which is pretty crazy that it even tops DBZ when it comes to inconsistent art. Super has pointless retcons. Also, the fight choreography is often worse in Super.

ShadyDoorags was saying: tcx was saying: THIS. People are missing the point. It´s not about a great fight (we´ve seen plenty already). This, and Bra vs Gast show that the gist of all is the development of the characters.

The entire point of DBM is the fights. People were drawn to this because they wanted to see "what if DBZ character A fought DBZ character B". Not to mention, Dragon Ball in itself is about the fights. They might have MOMENTS where things happen too quickly, but never an entire fight.

What the story did here was cool, but it was an awful idea to do it for Goku vs Vegeta, the most hyped up fight second to only Vegetto vs Gogeta.

Kururun was saying: DBZFan92 was saying: If this is truly the end of the fight, then who cares if we get a flashback? All the tension and suspense is gone. What a damn joke.

Nice try but people will try to shoot down your (reasonable) criticism by calling you wrong for not valuing the subversion more than having a good fight. I guess that as long as it's different, it's better.

InertBallZ was saying: This is the kind of thing a person says when they forget that we are watching a story unfold one page at a time, 3 times a week AT BEST. The suspense was built all along, and paid off in the last 2 pages. We don't even know if Vegeta is using a shadow clone or some nonsense yet, but even if he is KO this was the most simple and elegant way of showcasing the level of power he and Goku just reached. Super doesn't avoid this flaw - it's always creating new power-ups then having our heros slug it out the same as if they never moved past SSJ1. It's lost meaning. Not every fight needs to be standard issue fight choreography

This "they're so strong we can't see them" copout is so dishonest. Why show ANY fight after Krillin vs Roshi then? They were already too fast for regular humans to see. The reason we still get to see the fights is because that's what the appeal is. That's why we can see SS2 Vegetto and Broly having a slugfest.
Goku and Vegeta are slower than these two. Thousands of times slower, in fact. There's no reason for them and only them to get offscreened like this.

Well said.

In terms of raw power they are not stronger than Vegito. I do not know what they will be calling this transformation but I will call it Perfected SSJ for now. They stated earlier that this state allows them to have full control of all the power the should have at their disposal the SSJ forms offer, neither Goku or Vegeta have an aura and by what Piccolo said earlier about their breathing is calm and their energy levels lowered to a point he could barley sense them. It could very well be that other tournament fighters simply cannot sense them since no ki is being lost to their surroundings. Even Gohan in ultimate still has an aura and people can sense him. They could be teleporting around constantly which is why no one is really able to just simple see their movements.

For the reason why Vegito, the fusion of the 2 people who did manage to acquire Perfected SSJ; he never had the motivation to do so. He in just SSJ was leagues stronger than anyone in his universe, none of the threats they had faced before would ever be able to touch him. The strongest foe, Buuhan was being bitch slapped by him. He had no one who could keep up with him, in the novel only Gohan could somewhat keep up with him while in his base form. Why would he ever think it was necessary to find a new path of power? Another big part is maybe he did try to find a way to fix the problems with SSJ3 but would of never been able to master his body in the same manner as Goku and Vegeta in the time since he was "born" and the tournament began. I do not think this form would be possible for Vegito since he is a fusion with memories of two lives he never truly lived.

Goku and Vegeta had themselves to motivate each other as well as Gohan. After the Buu saga both Goku and Vegeta were still significantly weaker than Buuhan hell even SSJ3 Gotenks. Knowning there are no doubt threats out there even stronger than Buuhan, they had to find a way to get to a level beyond him.

Rimuru_Tempest was saying: No, it is most likely that he couldn't follow their movements, due to them not having energy to sense.(You know, the thing that allows people to see their opponents moving extremely fucking fast)

Why do people keep parroting this? That has never been how it has worked it Dragonball. If that's what Salagir is going for here then it's nonsense. Vegeta couldn't sense Goku in their first fight, he followed his movements just fine. Frieza couldn't sense anyone, he followed their movements just fine. Piccolo and Cell couldn't sense C17, they followed his movements just fine. The only way Vegetto wouldn't be able to follow their movements is if they are way more powerful than him.

beeruz was saying: I can see why people are angry.Salagir even said on the page 2167 or the one before that the main point of dbm was to see fight's we didn't see in the orginal series so to cut it short while interesting and good for reactions it still underwhelmes the entire fight.

Yup. He did say that. Yet so far every quarterfinal and semi-final haven't even been actual fights except the disappointing Goku vs Uub, and Vegeta vs Cell the ONLY main chapter not drawn by Asura. But then again, this is the same guy who complained about people not paying attention to the story... on the very same page he made it clear he didn't fully pay attention to his source material's story.

If this is truly the end of the fight, then who cares if we get a flashback? All the tension and suspense is gone. What a damn joke.

KugelBlitz2324 was saying:
Vegito is PISSED!


Which is kinda disrespectful, to be honest. Okay, in Actuality Vegeto is only about 10 Years old, right ? But still, he has the Body of an Adult-Being with the Life-experience of two Men around Fifty-Four Years or so, right ?
I bet i'm a little bit off again, but Man Vegeto should possess the Power of Manners and Respect, honestly.


" Litte Bastards " ?

THAT is the inner Vegeta speaking, i think. Also these little Bastards (lol) are also kiiiiiinnnda basically also a little bit his older Brothers when we take it precisely what Goku and Vegeta are, for Vegeto.



A tiny bit more Respect for these two would do Vegeto good for Mind and Soul.
Our very, VERY young Uber-Supersaiyan of Potara-Origin would be well-advised to realise this.


I just realised how different my own Personality is, from Vegeto's. I would be actually SO proud of Goku and Vegeta - and eager to learn from them, what for a State that is and how exactly they achieved it.


IMAGINE THAT !!! Something that allows a Man of his Powerlevel to overcome the DRAWBACK of Supersaiyan Three !!!
He who according to Salagir can only use it the shortest due to his insane Base Level. And the Boot is apparently even above Supersaiyan Three.


Take Notes, Vegeto !! This is probably the best Stuff You will ever see for the Rest of your Life.

Wow this is truly awful. I've been with the comic for ages (more than a decade now). This was one of the big fights a lot of people were waiting for because we had no clue who would win or how. And you gave away the ending of it immediately and ruined any sort of suspense. So disappointed.

I can only hope this isn't it.

I mean, I don't care that much about Goku vs Vegeta myself, I'm more into seeing more Vegeto/Bra with cool new techniques and all that, but this battle has been anticipated since... what, page 106 like 14 years ago? And now there's Asura to make it awesome af, with the new forms and all... And they end it with literally no fight (again)? It would hurt a bit even for me, so I can't imagine those looking up for the fight.

If they do show now what happened it'd also lose a lot of punch and be a great mistake imo. The "impressive" effect is nice but you can get it all the same stoping midway, or near the end, so we don't know who'll win while they show us that.

Which keeps making me believe that can't be the end. Even Salagir can't be such a troll.

tcx was saying: THIS. People are missing the point. It´s not about a great fight (we´ve seen plenty already). This, and Bra vs Gast show that the gist of all is the development of the characters.
Except DBM is literally about the fights. Making "dream battles" is what DBM is about. And there's no bigger fish than "ultimate" goku vs "ultimate" vegeta on that. They can skip many things, but this one ain't it.

So where are they relative to Vegito at this point? If they do the fusion dance he's absolutely toast. DBM seems to be taking the stance that "Vegito gets lazy and lacks the individual strengths that his halves have separated." I said a while back that this Vegito is an average of Goku and Vegeta, but their best qualities are lost. I think that's proving to be the point of the later parts of the story.

He gets Vegeta's cruelty but not his indomitability. He gets Goku's laid back sense of humor, but not his discipline. He gets Vegeta's sense of importance, but not his sense of pride. He gets Goku's social ineptitude, but not his affable nature. The result is a stupidly powerful bully, and a coward. At an equal power level both Goku and Vegeta would wipe the floor with DBM's Vegito for the same reason Son Bra was btfo by Bra Briefs.

J.I.L was saying: TF? is that U18 Bra? She looks like U16 Bra.

Keep in mind, the main difference between universes 16 and 18 is that 16 has Vegetto, 18 has Goku and Vegeta in his stead. Everything else, visually, looks the same.

J.I.L was saying: "ha...ha"... very funny.
Because you edited your comment, you lost your third place! Sorry!

Ppl whose place is wrong: Geoip's fault ;p

BangBang was saying: You mean Broly is not interesting, Buu? OK.
Ugh, don't remind me of DBM Broly.

To this date, I will never like it and I'm so glad that plotline has been (hopefully) resolved.

J.I.L was saying: Universe ranking of having the best endings/fates (at beginning of the tournament!)
1. Universe 18
2. Universe 9
3. Universe 1
4. Universe 10
5. Universe 16
6. Universe 12
7. Universe 7
8. Universe 19
9. Universe 4
10. Universe 15
11. Universe 3
12. Universe 14
13. Universe 6
14. Universe 8
15. Universe 13
16. Universe 11
17. Universe 17
18. Universe 20

Edit: Uni 2 & 5 - unknown.

I'd switch universe 17 and 8. Cell is much stronger than the Frost demons but he's not interested in conquering galaxies. Instead I think he just hopes from planet to planet every month or two which wouldn't yield the same level or torment and oppression as Babidi, the Frost demons, and the super sayians. I'd also argue that universes 1 and 10 are the best overall, since while our protagonists aren't there, Buu and Freeza were never there to kill trillions of beings. Otherwise pretty accurate. And Trunks is right, how sad is it that his universe is in the top third

Sooo… How much is left of this chapter? U17 has arrived. Once U18 shows up, we will be at basically the beginning and know what happens afterwards. I can see a verbal confrontation between Cell and Gohan, as well as U12 Trunks being excited to see his father when U18 arrives. Other than that, what else is there?

Seeing how quickly Cell was defeated by Vegeta, in hindsight I was expecting so much more from him. He was just thrown aside like a Jabroni. Perfect Cell is the Jinder Mahal of this story. A man who won the big one but is still looked at and treated like a joke. Cell was always my favorite character, and this is just sad to see what he was reduced by story end.