Your nickel was saying: How was Gohan handling three Androids by himself in base on the last page? Unless he was made an Android himself, that is

Why do you say he was in base, he was blonde. But yeah I think the androids aren't intended to all be as strong as even gero. He didn't need strength after he killed goku and didn't have a reason to make them stronger then him. Cell was his big strength project. Each Android probably was experimenting specific facets of design he was playing with, not necessarily just making them stronger and stronger. He wanted them to have some degree of autonomy but not enough power to be a problem.

Is this Super Saiyan Fourth Grade aka Full PowerSSJ?

Lol Bravo, You calmed us by saying just kidding & then hilariously did it anyways (This page)

仅是剑客 was saying: Wasn't Bra believe Janemba was weak? https://w...393.html#h_read
She really has became a clown as her father now.
Goku is better to learn from Gast and Uub instead of listening to her.

Her statement makes no sense. She's on the level of SSJ2 Vegito. How would she not be able to handle Janemba there? I just try to ignore Bra as a character in DBM cuz everything else for the most part is enjoyable

Edit: Knowing Goku, whatever advice Gast has, Goku will reject it for a good fight UNLESS he doesn't have the DBS down syndrome stigma the show likes to exercise to a disgusting degree

DeathToKakarot was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: I wonder why is he in such turmoil and hope Gast will uncover his true nature.
Actually, everyone should understand that if Gast declared forfeit but ended up this bad, it means he WAS damaged after, and THAT means the rules were broken. We think it was instantaneous between two panels, but it might've as well taken a few seconds between Gast screaming and Vargas declaring XXI the winner. Few seconds where the rules were not honored. Few seconds that could disqualify XXI and bring the victory to Gast (either that or for some reason GOKU wins by default because Gast forfeited).

The question is tho... Do the rules say not to attack after they give up, or after the winner of the bout is announced? Because there is a clear distinction with that, that could be brought up here.
There was precedent set back in Frieza vs Nappa that indicates you're not allowed to keep attacking after they say they forfeit, even before the official announcement is made

I wonder why is he in such turmoil and hope Gast will uncover his true nature.
Actually, everyone should understand that if Gast declared forfeit but ended up this bad, it means he WAS damaged after, and THAT means the rules were broken. We think it was instantaneous between two panels, but it might've as well taken a few seconds between Gast screaming and Vargas declaring XXI the winner. Few seconds where the rules were not honored. Few seconds that could disqualify XXI and bring the victory to Gast (either that or for some reason GOKU wins by default because Gast forfeited).

happywarrior99 was saying: The last panel shows two Gasts, one who is undamaged and one who is a charred corpse. Did Gast regenerated from his cut legs?

I'm pretty sure that's an organizer namek coming to heal him

happywarrior99 was saying: The last panel shows two Gasts, one who is undamaged and one who is a charred corpse. Did Gast regenerate from his cut legs? Or is that another Namekian? Either way U5 XXI is probably getting disqualified for hitting an opponent after they gave up, as show by U5 XXI's face showing a disappointed facial expresion on the last panel of page 2446.

PMC was saying: This could actually be good for Goku, with one BIG assumption: that XXI is unable to reuse JanembaU5 Saike Demon was absorbed again by U5 XXI, thus U5 XXI can try asking his wish granting friend to infuse U5 Saike Demon by enough evil to transform U5 Saike Demon back into U5 Janemba.
What are you talking about he's a fried corpse in both pictures that is one of the healers
The same Namek who heard Gast give up in the previous page

Friendly reminder that U7 Gero said on page 2433 that U7 Cell can absorb any of the U7 Androids, which means that U7 Android 28 is both an energy absorbing model cyborg and an infinite energy battery model cyborg at the same time, thus Thorn draining U7 Android 28's energy would not be enough to kill her, because U7 Android 28 still has infinite energy reserves anyway.

It is highly suspicious that despite U7 Android 28 having infinite energy reserves Thorn could somehow easily defeat her by just draining some of her energy.

I think that U7 Android 28 is pretending to be unconscious/inert to infiltrate inside the resistance's base.

I think that the lie Thorn talked about could be U7 Goku's fate, because U7 Goku getting killed by the heart virus does not stop U7 Gero's from reanimating U7 Goku's corpse via replacing a recently deceased U7 Goku's heart with an infinite energy battery to transform U7 Goku into a loyal cyborg.

Dislpay name was saying: Is Thorn gonna turn #28 into an imposter?Why would U7 Android 28 chose to allow Thorn to do that?

Friendly reminder that U7 Android 28's body is currently still completely undamaged/intact and she also has infinite energy reserves, thus U7 Android 28 still has infinite energy reserves no matter how much energy Thorn may have drained from her.

Kururun was saying: ssss was saying: Ah yes, because Future Bulma, Future Gohan, and Future Trunks never joked around. Nope, these characters should just be depressed 24/7

Toriyama never drew them making funny SD faces because it was obviously tonally deaf

Delphince was saying: Bulma honestly ISN'T a good person. Her degree of selfishness pushes her right up to the edge of being a villain, and her goals have just never directly clashed with the well-being of the world. Capsule Corp brings her inventions to the people, but her motivation is wealth rather than altruism. Time and again, when she's had the opportunity to help herself OR society, she chooses herself, every time. Trunks' dark future has shown that when the chips are down, she can be broken to show a good person inside, but the same could be said for Vegeta's character development.

That's... not an accurate portrayal of Bulma, to say the least. The worst she has shown was trying to shoot Goku in self defense in chapter 1, which was more about being funny than portraying her moral core. Is Bulma a selfless superhero? No, why would she be? Is she a bad person? Fuck no. She has always been supportive, thoughtful, caring for her friends... Even daring, since she was willing to go to Namek despite the two months trip, just to help revive their friends. We've also seen her being nice to strangers like the Namekians, and responsible when it comes to the fate of the Earth with the Gero situation.

Bulma is basically your standard good person wrapped in the comedic package of "whiny city girl". She gets bonus points for being the heart of Dragon Ball by triggering the meeting that started it all, and saving the future by building a fucking time machine just because Goku represented HOPE that much for her.


“Bulma shooting Goku was just a joke. Don’t worry about it.”

Ah gotcha. So moments of significance only need to be serious when YOU see fit. When they support your views on the narrative. Your complaints now make a lot more sense.

“They didn’t react how I wanted them to react. Clearly its the writers incompetence and not my own desires leaking into my judgement.”

Also he’s right in saying Bulma wasn’t a good person. She may have changed in Z but he just described her og dragon ball personality to a perfect T. The entire first arc of DB is Bulma using the same child she attempted to kill (yes I realize he flipped her car. Doesn’t change the fact that she had no hesitation in unloading rounds into what looked like a damn near toddler) as a meat shield while she hunted for a Bf. Then she tried to offer him sexual favors despite, again, looking way younger than the average human of his own age.
You’re views on a ‘bad person’ are twisted if she’s anything but.
Bulma is AT BEST incredibly selfish…and a worst? She deserves to be locked up.

BangBang was saying: Evil Santa, checking his naughty list. Guess Cell simply needs to absorb any 2 cyborgs to become complete and not #17 and #18 specifically. Interesting.

Which is strange for me, because he couldnt’t absorb 16. Maybe Gero made this Cell different.

COMEDY GOLD!

And past the initial viewing, I can't tell if this is a genuine olive branch or an extremely polite threat. Gast is one of the best characters.

brolyhater was saying: Why do you keep saying "U7 Marron (U7 Krillin's daughter)"Because Dragon Ball franchise canonically has two female characters who are named "Marron": Marron (Krillin's ex-girlfriend) and Marron (Krillin's daughter).

I wonder why Krillin gave to his own daughter the same name that his ex-girlfriend has.

You're Name was saying: bThose ChatGPT started to act like human and reads this doujin.You do not need to make fun of me. It is not my fault that Akira Toriyama chose to give the same name to two female characters who are a part of Krillin's life/social circle.

I didn’t read what anyone above me said but why is Roshi dead if this special also covers Universe 12 ? Which universe 12 is the universe that is closest to canon Z trunks who went to past to save Goku, stop Cell, and returned to his own time to destroy the androids and Cell. Roshi was still alive in the history of trunks special. I guess Salagir wants him to be more heroic instead of a cowardly but wise old man that history of trunks movie showed us. But even in the Kakarot game Roshi was alive in his submarine. In fact as Trunks you have to deliver food to him from Bulma.

Saiyans
living
peacefully?

I am not aware they could do anything peacefully. Not even dying in their sleep!

hecks was saying: Grash was saying:
Gohan got character assassinated as well.

1. Gohan did not give up after losing goku to raditz
2. Gohan did not give up after watching all the namekiens die
3. Gohan ALMOST gave up after losing goku to cell but still pulled through
4. Gohan DID NOT give up against super boo after all his friends and the whole earth got eaten

Gohan is not this much of a quitter, plain and simple. His saiyan pride would never let him become a nihilistic, emo high school student.

There is no legitimate reason for this to happen. Baba helped bring goku back for a day in Z and with grandpa gohan. Goku and gohan saving the galaxy from freeza deserves some more credibility than this. This kind of writing oozes depression and nihilism.
WukongTheMighty was saying:
— "I WANT TO DIE"han
I guess Gohan fucking hates his mom because I'm fairly certain that she's not dead here, at least going by the History of Trunks OVA. Also incredibly OOC for him to say anything like that at all, ever. Gohan doesn't get sad, he gets MAD.

I do not agree with these comments. Gohan at the end of the day is a kid who lost almost all of his family and friends (for good), whose life has now mutated into this insane killer cyborg apocalypse, and has had the slightest glimmer of hope ripped away from him by Baba. So of course he isn't thinking rationally here; who would? Also why can't he be both sad AND mad simultaneously? Emotions don't exist in a vacuum, especially under stress.

Hot take: moments like these are way more interesting than a lot of the original DBZ's character work. One of my biggest issues with the original DBZ story is the lack of this kind of deep introspection. Of course that isn't Toriyama's style and part of it is my personal taste in the media I consume. But I think that the writing has been such a constant and crucial aspect behind what has kept me coming back to DBM for this long - call it emo and nihilistic writing, but instances like this page are visceral and revealing, so emotionally raw and IMO deepens the reading experience altogether. This comic keeps surprising me and I love it.

You know the page is controversial and untrue to the source where praise starts taking the route "I like this comic because I don't really like Dragon Ball and don't want it to be faithful to Dragon Ball at all, more pointlessly edgy nihilism, please!"




Crunchbang was saying: Hey, Salagir. You're an amazing writer, and the foresight and planning you put into all your stories over so many years is extremely impressive. :)

Gotta be said sometimes.

Does it, tho? I will admit that some things are competently done, but I wouldn't exactly say that foresight and planning are Salagir's strong suit (just like Toriyama himself in a way). The plotholes in Dragon Ball proper are in my opinion excusable because Toriyama was not only working on schedule for an EXTREMELY tight 1 week crunch as well as coming up with all the story at the same time as doing all the art. (Along with dealing with nonsense from his editors demanding changes)
DBM has had the better part of two decades to make sure that such plotholes don't end up happening, and due to being a not for profit fanwork, isn't subject to any sort of crunch. As far as I'm concerned, Dragon Ball Multiverse has still yet to recover from the COLOSSAL plothole that "Super Saiyan 3 Goku despite being dead teleports in to kill Broly mere meters away from Vegeta and Gohan, who somehow don't notice this despite the fact the Super Saiyan 3 in canon made the entire world shake, nor do they notice that there are 3 beams crashing into Broly." creates.
While Salagir is doing the best he can as an amateur, the point still stands that DBM has a lot of plot holes.

DeathToKakarot was saying:

The special isn't even over yet, who's to say Gohan stays this way instead of it being a stray thought because he's emotional right now?? Hopeful people have moments of weakness too, but what makes them strong and brave is overcoming those moments.

ESPECIALLY young people, at some point a lot of them who go through a whole lot of an easier time than what this Gohan is going through get that occasional thought to end it all. And that's without the promise of being reunited with their families. Gohan (one of the few characters the in canon series with outstanding character development) IS allowed to have road bumps.

I think the problem is that this is too nihilistic and extreme. The story is beating us over the head how Gohan has no hope. It doesn't help that we know that Gohan is doomed to failure. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth. There isn't the right balance between bleakness and hope. .

DeathToKakarot was saying: Kururun was saying: Grash was saying: This kind of writing oozes depression and nihilism.

It's not even that, it's trying to establish some hard rules about the Dragon Ball universe, at the expanse of the characters.
Now you've got Baba being an asshole, Gohan acting emo (this scene is different from him giving up against Cell), Goku and friends explicitly not doing anything despite having ideas to solve everything, and the plothole still exists because they could have called the Nameks on the first day.

But hey, look at the bright side: the writers got to make a statement about how the afterlife works in Dragon Ball, according to them (even though it's not even internally consistent). I hope it was worth it!


SuperSaiyan4Vegetto was saying: I'm not going to be too hard on this comic since lets face it.....the plothole of why Goku didn't help Gohan is just that...a plot hole and some of them are just unresolvable, sadly. We know that if Goku did this it would mess up the timeline from what we know happened and that it's likely something that A. Toriyama forgot about until the Buu Saga.

Though I do wonder how long this chapter will be since I really don't know what else could be told in this story (Not that I'm complaining).


Maybe you could say that in the Androids attack they just lost the data where planet namek is and thus can't find it anymore, I accept that. Honestly though I feel like this is really the last I'd like to see of the "Future Timelines", they are a bit depressing.

Let's not forget that they don't know where the new planet Namek is guys. As even in the present timeline, they didn't find out until after Kakarot recovered from the virus, used IT to go to King Kai's planet, from there used the position of the planet to locate the planet, go there and bargain with the Namekians who agreed to help because it was Kakarot who they know as the guy who saved them from Freeza.

Tl;dr- King Kai and Kakarot play a huge role in even locating New Namek. And Kakarot himself played a huge role in even getting in contact with King Kai.


There is nothing stopping Goku from getting the location of new namek from king Kai, having king Kai tell Bulma and having Bulma build a new space ship so Gohan can go petition the namekians himself

Dende is still Gohan's friend, he'd come to earth at his request to be Kami and make new Dragon balls if Gohan asked.

Salagir was saying: In the "present" timeline, a little training make half of the cast stronger by far than the cyborgs. I can't do much about that, except play the "hope" storyline.

Or you could just not address it instead of trying to explain something you cannot explain by any means whatsoever.
The training and powerlevels are actually the least of your issues here, by far. The current chapter makes Baba look like a psycho, it makes Goku and his friends incredibly passive in the face of the biggest tragedy they ever faced, it makes Gohan a suicidal emo. Don't you think this is worse than "the numbers don't compute"?

People thought future Gohan somehow defeating Babidi and Dabra was dumb from a powerlevel standpoint (arguably might be a bigger issue than future Gohan being weak) but I'm sure the current chapter is worse. It doesn't mess the numbers, it shits on the characters.

Salagir was saying: Also, you can't compare Baba making little tournaments and implicating yourself in the destiny of a whole planet.

Baba let Grandpa Gohan have a heartfelt moment with Goku who'd later save the whole planet. How is it any different from letting Goku have a moment with Gohan who'd later save the planet? Why isn't Baba even letting Goku finish his sentence? She can tell him he can't teleport in the living world but he can certainly give Gohan ideas. This contradicts nothing.

Actually, here a non exhaustive list of possibilities:
— Goku can tell Gohan to go on Namek and Bulma can make a ship... or he could have done so if Baba wasn't assassinated as a character here
— Goku can ask Kaio to tell Gohan to go on Namek and Bulma can make a ship
— Goku can use his own telepathy to tell Gohan to go on Namek and Bulma can make a ship
— Goku can focus on his son's ki, teleport when he's fighting the Cyborgs and oneshot them in less than a second like he did when he threw a Solar Kamehameha at Broly (this certainly took longer than oneshotting the Cyborgs)
— Goku can ask Kaio to tell the Namekians to revive them (in fact he could have done so on the first day)
— Goku can ask Kaio to tell Enma to stick a boot up his ass since Kaio is definitely portrayed above him so they can kill the Cyborgs
— Goku can ask Kaio to tell Enma to stick a boot up his ass so they can take care of Bojack since Kaio is above Enma and Kaio defiintely cares about Bojack being sealed or killed
— Goku can literally just coach Gohan from heaven lol, just give the boy 6 months of training with telepathy

The worst part being: Goku can ask Kaio to tell the Namekians to revive them. There is NO rationalizing out of this. The moment you started trying to explain this stuff, you lost in consistency. Silence was infinitely better than trying to explain what CANNOT be explained. Right now you're just asking me to believe flawed and inconsistent explanations that shit on the characters without even beginning to solve the main plotholes.
You've taken a flawed setup and you just made it worse somehow.

Salagir was saying: As you state, all these have impact when said people are alive again.
If Dragon Balls were used in "future" timeline, or after Bojack special, heroes would have been permitted to crush cyborgs and Bojack with their new heaven-acquired powers.

What's the difference between Goku training in heaven and coming back to life with Dragon Balls to defeat the Saiyans, and Goku (or Z team) training in heaven and coming back to life with Dragon Balls to defeat the Cyborgs?
Answer: None.

In face, wasn't this line about Goku "teleporting Gohan on Namek" specifically added on purpose in order to gaslight the audience into accepting this explanation? Readers wouldn't accept Baba cutting off the communication (even less so) if Goku was just giving Gohan the idea to go on Namek. So you've had to add this line about Goku coming back to the living world to specifically teleport Gohan himself (when they have at least 2 solutions if not more to do this another way) in order to argue this was "dead people interfering with the living world".

Salagir was saying: Anyway, you can't compare (and that's true for the 3 lasts points) being in the middle of a situation and being stranded alone for years on a world where genocide occurs daily.

Exactly, you can't compare Gohan giving up a fight and being inspired by Goku... with Gohan being suicidal after a talk with Goku. The first one fits Dragon Ball, the second one belongs in another manga. Goku not inspiring hope just feels wrong. So even thematically this feels wrong.

Didn't Trunks write HOPE on his time machine? Isn't the point of this future that despite the dire circumstances the characters still maintain hope instead of wanting to kill themselves?

Grash was saying: This kind of writing oozes depression and nihilism.

It's not even that, it's trying to establish some hard rules about the Dragon Ball universe, at the expanse of the characters.
Now you've got Baba being an asshole, Gohan acting emo (this scene is different from him giving up against Cell), Goku and friends explicitly not doing anything despite having ideas to solve everything, and the plothole still exists because they could have called the Nameks on the first day.

But hey, look at the bright side: the writers got to make a statement about how the afterlife works in Dragon Ball, according to them (even though it's not even internally consistent). I hope it was worth it!

I'm not going to be too hard on this comic since lets face it.....the plothole of why Goku didn't help Gohan is just that...a plot hole and some of them are just unresolvable, sadly. We know that if Goku did this it would mess up the timeline from what we know happened and that it's likely something that A. Toriyama forgot about until the Buu Saga.

Though I do wonder how long this chapter will be since I really don't know what else could be told in this story (Not that I'm complaining).


Maybe you could say that in the Androids attack they just lost the data where planet namek is and thus can't find it anymore, I accept that. Honestly though I feel like this is really the last I'd like to see of the "Future Timelines", they are a bit depressing.

Just one creative question. What was the reasoning behind making Waluigi be Raditz instead of it being Luigi? Was it simply to give Luigi more time in the comic? I'm not complaining, just asking about the creative process it all.

Based on his Ego im sure he is atleast at Buu’s level.. or he use magic too..

Edit: Sorry, She, the eyelashes and the chest couldnt make it obvious enough for me lol..

happywarrior99 was saying: Zefarg was saying: Not enough to kill a Frost Demon as we all know, wonder if he gets a chance to fight back thoThe only Frost Demons who showed that ability are the Frost Demon mutants, ordinary Frost Demons such as King Cold do not have that ability.

Frieza, Cooler and Cell are mutants; King Cold and most of the other Frieza's ancestors are not mutants.

King Cold is not a mutant, which is why U18 King Cold was easily instantly killed by just getting punched by an unarmed Future Trunks, and why U18 King Cold asked Future Trunks to fight unarmed.

U8 Cold Ginyu is a special case, because U8 Cold Ginyu's body was altered/mutated by getting possessed by U8 Ginyu and then U8 Ginyu training U8 Cold Ginyu's body.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: Is he going to die here, or transform into an augmented form? Find out next page on Dragon Ball Multiverse.That would on depend on whether Polar is a mutant or is not a mutant.

DrewSaga was saying: Idk, we saw U9 Humans ruin a Majinized Cell Jr.For some reason on both the DB manga continuity, DB Z continuity, DB GT continuity and DBM continuity the Cell Jrs. were never show to have regeneration. Maybe Cell intentionally deliberately chose to create the Cell Jrs. without regeneration just in case the Cell Jrs. betrayed Cell.

That whole "mutant" thing sounds like you are making it up...

ZenBuu was saying: DarkBuster was saying: son buuwoku was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.



Lmao bro relax. If you don't like the special just come back in a month or so. It's not nice of you to call some one else's work "pointless".I It's okay to have a negative opinion but be nice. Do you make your own webcomics?
That is a lazy counterargument, and everybody knows it. You don't have to be a master chef to know whether a dish tastes good or not. Criticism is always fair, this doesn't need to be a "compliments only" zone. I'm criticizing a story, not the person behind it.

But, if it means that much to you, yes, I am a writer. As a writer, I can tell you that critique is part and parcel, and my critique is that this story wastes a lot of time and energy focusing on story elements that need it least, and does not dedicate nearly enough attention to the areas that matter.

DestroyerOfVegetards was saying: DarkBuster was saying: What the hell is this webcomic's dread fascination with Bojack?

Dude has had twice as many specials as everybody else, had a whole side arc with the random girls from his universe (who we still ironically know nothing about, by the way, despite the absurd amount of coverage this universe gets), and... I don't see why. They're literally the most generic "bad guy" characters dragonball ever put out, the specials have done nothing to make anyone but Bujin more interesting, the side plot went nowhere and had nothing to do with the actual narrative of DBM... Even Bujin's "character development" is totally worthless because he just immediately dies anyway.

And now they're gone, and not coming back. Yet here we are again. Why are we wasting so much time with pointless, empty characters that go nowhere, years after their barely-extant story ended? Surely there are better subjects for a special? U13 beating frieza, Gast's brushes with cell and buu, Kakarot getting immortality and killing Kami, U9 (at least the interesting parts of it, not just "world tournament without goku") is still criminally unexplored...

But nope. Bojack again. Look at him, being evil! Killing a random lackey before he kills a totally random OC frost demon who's equally undercooked and unimportant. Yaaaaaaaay.

Come on! It's actually interesting to see interactions between villains. Let's see how Bojack gang and the Frost demons face each other. We don't have enough villain-villain interactions in DBZ or DBS.
It would be if Bojack had any personality beyond "generically mean and evil." But he doesn't. And considering he's completely unchanged by the time of the tournament, we know he's not gonna develop one, either. He has less personality than a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain, and is one curly mustache away from tying women to train tracks and waiting for Superman to swoop in.

If these specials actually explored bojack, made him a more fleshed out character, that would at least be interesting. But they don't. So far we know:

1. He broke out of a laboratory prison
2. He kills people because he's evil and feels like it.

... and that's basically it. At least Freiza, Cell, Kakarot, zen buu, ranching, etc all have distinct personalities and motivations.

How is bojack gonna interact with the frost demon? Probably by smirking, calling him some vulgar names, they'll scuffle a bit, bojack will kill him. Maybe with some help from Bujin's magic, after which he'll say "mwahahaha! that will be useful!" or something similar. The end. Riveting.
Criticizing is always fair? If it is constructive, then yes. But I assume you don't read the comments here often. Because some people here are rude af and just complain for the sake of it. Saying "this shit sucks; it's so boring; go back to the main story finally" is nothing a writer is profiting from. Besides, Salagir doesn't care for those comments, he can do whatever he wants. It's his story.

And as it's already been said, you can come back in some months, because we won't suddenly get a different chapter just because some people complain about Bojack. It is what it is.
And yet that's not what I'm doing; I'm not just saying "this shit sucks" and running off into the sunset. I'm genuinely curious why there is so much focus being put on a character like bojack, who, frankly, never had anything going for him, even in his own movie. Especially when he, again, has no further relevance to the DBM plot, and the most interesting part of his universe (the random girls with magic powers) still don't have a drop of backstory to them.

It's genuinely puzzling, this direction. I'm not demanding that it be changed, but I feel like saying the comic and its specials could benefit by focusing on actually relevant subject matter in future is a totally fair criticism.

Danjita was saying: Fun Fact, Vegeta has won literally every fight he's ever had with Goku.
Just thought I'd remind you all of that.Everyone knows that by now. Vegeta has won all on-screen (DB/DBZ/DBM) duels against Goku so far. I'm intentionally excluding other media like DBS or GT, etc. because it has no place here.

I can understand why some are still unhappy though. In all the battles between Goku and Vegeta, there was always something that still slowed them down and prevented them both from completely giving their all and holding nothing back. Either training, holding back a transformation, Sucker Punch, external help, etc.

Vegeta may have officially won all (3) duels with Goku up until this DBM tournament. But they don't feel deserved. Therefore, you can understand why many of Vegeta's fans now, of all times, sensed a chance for the Saiyan Prince to finally get his truly deserved victory over Goku. Both are not only mentally on the same wavelength in terms of training, fighting and getting stronger in general, but also because they are on the same level in terms of power level and have even discovered and used this new Form.


pofehof was saying: Watch out, the Vegeta fanboys are going to come out in droves to say how you're wrong.I would be very pleased if you did not provoke each other unnecessarily on this site. Some people just have different preferences and want different outcomes to this fight.


SeanTheGoober was saying: I still can’t get over the fact that Vegeta was smiling as he fell to the ground. I’m assuming that means he’s either accepted his defeat with grace, or he’s planning something.My guess is the former.

For so long, he wanted a real duel between the two of them, in which nobody holds anything back or external interventions interrupt their fight. He finally got that ultimate fight. And although he probably lost, he finally realizes which of the two is the better one under the same circumstances (same mentality about fighting, same power level). Like you said. Vegeta may have accepted defeat with grace for the first time.

I cant help but feel that this battle is now ruffling my jammies.

Myetic Zander was saying: I’m just saying, if Goku uses the Kaioken, everyone who referred to this as ‘protagonist plot armor’ or anything of the like needs to apologize.
It’s not plot-armor or some random ass-pull. The Kaioken makes a lot of sense. It probably makes more sense than literally any other option in this instance- especially if this new form is intended to remove the strain added by transformations. He feels closer to his base form now than he ever has as a super Saiyan. The Kaioken is completely justifiable.


It would be the exact opposite of justified. The whole reason they went for the first transformation is to not be slaves to the default problems of the super saiyan form: it taxes the body too much and damages it in the long run. The Kaioken would do PRECISELY the same, as it is literally a technique that damages the body for extra power output.

From a storywise perspective, if the kaioken is utilised, it would mean the entire setup for this battle is completely negated.

This is getting... sighs. Just end this. The art was great but the story boarding... dissapointing fan-service.
Saligir you dropped the ball this fight, imo (though I do understand what it was gunning for here).

No new technigues... no new moves. Just a new form, with punch, kicks and generic blasts.

Lame.

Here's what I would have done. I would have given Vegeta a lot of new techniques, that he learned from... Old kai. Yeah... in Univerise 18... Vegeta in his periodic sabatical to space to train and get away from everyone... he runs into the supreme kais... and decided to learn from them. Including doing space cop errands like Universe 16 Vegito does.

Doing this... Vegeta is able to fully master ssj2. Becomes pound for pound... stronger then Goku (like he was in DBS ROF). And is even able to unlock ssj3... but never really does anything with the form because of his personal pride of refusing to follow after Kakarot (think DBS with Vegeta never wanting to use I.T even after doing it once from the Yadrats).

He showcases his evolution as a fighter in this fight, and ends up defeating Goku while barley using ssj3 until the very end. Just a mastered ssj2, battle smarts and techniques.

Then Goku whips out this form, and molly whoops Vegeta quickly. Fight over.

That Saiyan does know that scouters can transmit data, likely including data about what went down between Bardock and Dodoria right? I mean later on Vegeta and Nappa found out about the Dragon Balls that way and Frieza also found out about it the same way.

Why did Krillin suddenly grow cat ears?

Super Gojita 3 was saying: Static was saying: Tombo was saying: It's good. It's an exploration of what Roshi was actually doing when trying to get ladies. It's funny and it's actually less bad than OG DB (and super) because here he's trying stuff and getting shut down as opposed to actually fondling and peeping underaged girls..

Peeping isn't exactly the worst thing a pervert can do...and Yoshi's never been "shown" fondling anyone underage.

It's also weird that you're implying Roshi's never been getting shot down in the series itself, not by Lunch maybe...but literally any other girl he's done that to.

Wait, yoshis a pervert? no wonder mario smacks his little buddy!

glad we got that covered...


all kidding aside I knew what you meant. Its a common tactic online to go full grammEr nazi and speeling nazi to suggest that a person "won" an online debate.

other than that, yeah I agree with you.

Though by "underage" do you mean by japanese or american standards as bulma was like 16, and hence "underage" for american audiences in that regard. japanese laws are different but I don't know the exact specificity on that.

if by underage you mean like children ages 12 and younger, I don't think he did.

Someone can double check that and flaunt the evidence in my face if they wish. I don't mind eating humble pie. serve it up hot with some vanilla ice cream plz.

The legal age of consent in Japan is usually 16 or 18 because it depends on the different part of Japan you are in. Master Roshi is a sick freak.

One thing I didn't care for in DBS (among a lot of things I won't get into) is the idea that Beerus influenced Frieza's decision to destroy the Saiyans. Because it implies that Frieza didn't do it consciously out of fear but rather because he takes orders or that Beerus manipulates him (and Beerus hasn't really been shown to be manipulative when it comes to anything other than food), even though in DBS later on Frieza isn't really all that afraid of Beerus (after the latest DBS Chapter I can see why).

LMAOOOOOOO Krillin roasting Roshi's drip is funny AF, well done writers

Win or not, you can tell Goku gave this everything, he pushed himself for this victory against Vegeta, on the brink of his own defeat or exhaustion, at least. This was a worthwhile fight in the name of their legendary rivalry.

Tyrik73 was saying: I know dbs isn't Canon to this comic but I think Orange Piccolo who is Piccolo at his Ultimate Potential Could probably follow their Movements
What are you talking about? DBS is canon. It's been canon since it was announced.

Nassif9000 was saying: and there we go, back to the present. i'm going to repeat my guess from the moment we saw goku knock vegeta down, i think vegeta's disadvantage is one of or a combination of both these factors: he learned ss3 much later than goku, giving him less time to learn the intricacies of mastering the super saiyan transformation to this degree, compounded with the fact that goku got a 7 year afterlife body training advantage where sleep, food and rest were never required. Secondly, Vegeta's body is quite older thank goku's thanks to their already existing age gap, the 7 year gap where goku didn't age due to being dead, and the fact that vegeta used the room of spirit and time much more than goku did. overall, U18 Vegeta is at least 2 or 3 years older than the other non-RoSaT-using Vegetas, and by proxy ~10 years older than goku. since DBM happens 10 years after EoZ, vegeta must be approaching his 70s or 80s by now. the age disadvantage was highlighted with Goku vs Freeza quite significantly, and may end up being the reason vegeta ends up losing... that is of course if we assume that both fighters are on equal terms with battle power and fighting skill, physical age is the only thing that gives goku an advantage over vegeta.

as for the naming discussion... why would you call it "mystic" when "mystic" was never an official term for gohan's form? it's ultimate gohan, potential unleashed, blah blah blah.
i've been saying we should call it super saiyan 0 for a while now, i even suggested "super saiyan grade 5" but threw that idea away cause this form is clearly implied to be utilizing the FULL potential of a saiyan's power, i.e. SS3 without any energy leakage. idk why "mystic" should even be considered when this is clearly super saiyan utilized in a manner similar to what elder kai magic'd gohan into doing. I thought the fandom would have dropped this term by now since its origins have never been more than fan-made.
Super Saiyan 4

Tyrik73 was saying: I know dbs isn't Canon to this comic but I think Orange Piccolo who is Piccolo at his Ultimate Potential Could probably follow their Movements
DBS is canon

South_Ferry was saying:
Guys, do you prefer Super Saiyan Zero or ULTRA MYSTIC as a fan made name for this form


Their Eyes were glowing somewhat, jeah ? But there is not telling IF it was in the turquoise Supersaiyan Color, since this Comic has no Color usually.

Hence, i wouldn't call it Supersaiyan-ish in any way. So no "Supersaiyan Zero". I admit to You it is a very cool Name, though.

newhinhin was saying: Yup, no wonder Salagir said DBS stole his idea.
This is basically Ultra Instinct
With a twist of Perfected Super Saiyan Blue.
As far as I know, the Mystic form doesn't keep the ki within the same way PSSB does.

Kururun was saying: Full power right out of the gate? Are they rushing it?
I think it's pretty funny that you say this now, because on page 2162 you were all like "Feels like the battle is gonna be less than 24 pages long with all this padding."
XD

Skillet91 was saying: J.I.L was saying: TF? is that U18 Bra? She looks like U16 Bra.

Keep in mind, the main difference between universes 16 and 18 is that 16 has Vegetto, 18 has Goku and Vegeta in his stead. Everything else, visually, looks the same.
Eh... except there's no Uub. And pan's personalities are slightly differnt. And vegetto is not made up of U18 Goku and Vegeta. It's U16 Goku and Vegeta. That being U16 Vegeta is not as full devolped as U18 Vegeta nor did he grow to be as developed as him due to him being Vegetto, now.

And the Bras are astronomically differnt too. Plus their universes are differnt in order, as U18 just stays on earth, while U16 travels its entire Universe.

There's a lot more differnces among U18 and U16 that meet the immediate eye.

The art is incredible, but there as of yet is still no story since the specials started. It's more a let's see Trunks perspective, a voyeur. There's yet to be any conflict, overcoming obstacles, problem-solving, etc. Again love the art and just looking to give honest feedback for improvement (though I recognize it's not over yet).

DrewSaga was saying: What the hell man, he made an entire planet? At this point this DBM version of Buu could take on Beerus and probably win (though Beerus could also win using Hakai). So I wonder how many enemies there might be that are stronger than Uub because there is no way Uub is going up against only one powerful foe with a battle arena of these proportions!

So does Buu literally carry around a planet with him inside a pocket dimension? So Buu fought all the fighters while carrying a planet inside him, that's amazing. Imagine if Buu took off those weights lol.

The namekian dragonballs could create a planet from scratch quite easily, the Kaioshin are also capable of creating planets. So Buu doing it, having mastered both types of magic, isn't really weird for him. In theory, Beerus still wouldn't have too much trouble defeating him, as of now at least, since his full power could completely destroy Universe 7.

Vegetto should've gone straight to SSJ3 and attack immediately...I guess he is still half Vegeta.

Zeromus was saying: Kid Gohan had power level of 1300 and he wounded Raditz with single attack. Piccolo's second Makankosappo with power level of 1480 killed him in one hit. There is no way that he had power level of 1500. Daizenshuu has many bullshit power levels like Kid Goku with pw 10 (a little more than normal human) when he was already bullet proof and was able to lift a car.

Right on. Both manga and anime said Raditz was at 1,200.
Not sure where the 1,500 came from.
Also at that point, Raditiz was unable to hide his power level. So he was always at max.

DrewSaga was saying:

Nah, those Frieza grunts were as weak as Raditz if not even weaker. Gohan and Krillin took a couple out like it was nothing.

At the time both Krillin and Gohan were over 1,500.
They’d one-shot 1,200 Raditz too with 1,500 power level. See how easily Vegeta at 24k one-shot 18k Cui and easily defeated 22k Dodoria.

AsianPersuasion0 was saying: Well honestly, King Piccolo is crueler. He is a tyrant that lets people live (in terror). Meanwhile Saiyans are more like business men. They're like a cleanup crew, wiping the planet of the "germs" then selling the planet.
Meh I guess you can classify the Saiyans a little more evil than just the "cleaning crew" that passes on the planets. Since Nappa literally suggested raping Earthlings to spawn more hybrid saiyans for them. so the Saiyans probably do a little more to the planet's inhabitants besides exterminating them.

I’d like to see the number on a scouter as soon as possible.

Nirvano was saying: AsianPersuasion0 was saying: Well honestly, King Piccolo is crueler. He is a tyrant that lets people live (in terror). Meanwhile Saiyans are more like business men. They're like a cleanup crew, wiping the planet of the "germs" then selling the planet.
Meh I guess you can classify the Saiyans a little more evil than just the "cleaning crew" that passes on the planets. Since Nappa literally suggested raping Earthlings to spawn more hybrid saiyans for them. so the Saiyans probably do a little more to the planet's inhabitants besides exterminating them.

I swear either my memory played a trick on me, or these colored mangas are not the original.
In the original black and white manga (hard copy), as I remembered from the early 1990s, Vegeta and Nappa never showed their face until they landed on earth for the first time. So no conversation either. If it is indeed the case, then it must be an updated version that influenced by the anime. That would explain why I did not recall King Piccolo ever talked about blowing up random cities either.

Arnim Zola was saying:
my friend, Or you´re just trolling purposely to annoy this other fellow to get him banned. Or are you really begging to be harassed because there's no way in hell that you still have these same conclusions even after other users have already written two giant comments for you showing you the black and white pages including the chapters where they are.

If you drop the hostility, perhaps you will see things differently. I am simply posting my honest thoughts. What I saw in the early 90s were hard copies of the mange brought to school by classmates. If someone wants to personal attack me over it and get banned, not my problem. I too have anger as a part of me, but I am too old to get angry over a manga discussion. Maybe you should try it too.

Anyway, I am simply questioning if there are newer edition of the manga which was produced at a later date right around the anime and incorporated elements from the anime. Is it absolutely impossible? Look, the marvel books I brought for my kids incorporated movie stories and other elements which are different from the comics.

Eldagusto was saying: . Nah I remember from the original comics Vegeta and Nappa were eating Aliens sitting on the rubble of their civilization talking about Raditz and Wishes.

Was it hard copy from early 90s? I need to be absolutely sure. Cos by the time I saw them eating aliens in the anime in the late 90s, it was totally new to me... Never saw it before. Unless I forgot more details than I realize lol. I did not own those hard copies, and I only read most chapters once or twice. The books were passed around in the classroom. King Piccolo saga was actually the first saga I saw. Before I was interested and went back to start from the beginning.

This is unrealistic. King Piccolo in the manga did not even needlessly kill any random people. He only killed those who stood in his way of world domination (king’s guards, z fighters, and other world’s top martial artists). His goal was only to rule the earth as a dictator. Not a mass muder for no reason. Anything else was just anime filler.
Here he took over, and he could simply order Popo around as a minion. (Popo called the fused kamiccolo as “Kami” in the Andriod saga).
The platform is also his base now. So why destroy them? If he wanted to test his power, go find Raditz.

I am not sure I get what happened after what.What's that energy burst on the first panel? Is that Raditz shooting off? Or is that from Kami and generic-saiyan-boy-number-3? I'd think it was Raditz, but it makes little to no sense given how he just appeared behind Kami, and not rushed there with energy around him...

: not to mention how ox kings power level was like 900 which is clearly not true as hes probably much weaker then master roshi whose all the way back at 130...

What I dont get is why everyone keeps shitting on Radditz "Being weak". The only two ones who mentioned Radditz was weak were Nappa; who was considered an elite saiyan, and Vegeta, who was a prodigy elite.

Hell, we have no reason to even believe that Radditz was weak by saiyan standards, simply because we don't have a lot to compare him to; King Vegeta and Prince Vegeta were obviously stronger, and Nappa, being a general, would obviously be stronger too. So the only ones left of pure heritage would be Broly (legendary super saiyan/non-canon?), Turles (non-canon, and weaker than vegeta pre-apple), Tarble (considered so weak he was sent off-planet).

Radditz was, at worst, an average soldier compared to Freeza's army, and a standard soldier by saiyan standards.

Raditz's hair looks weird. Also he had white gloves, so mabye he moved up a rank because white clothing isn't worn by lower levels.

Cauliflower, Pumkin and Cherry? Toma was already streching it.. why a fruit?

And mystery solved the sayian on the cover is Kumpin

5 pots 4th is Raditz, wonder what the last one will be..

While I didn't throw any shade back then with the prior special, I would be lying if I said I was not a fan, and going by the cover art here I still am not. And if I were to put any sort of reason on it, it's because this looks like a weird western adult comedy cartoon mixture between Beevis and Butthead mixed with Brickleberry, with some panels even leaning into Aeon Flux a bit with their bizarre anatomy. Each have their own appeal and their own audience, but not much of a crossover with Dragon Ball, Akira Toriyama's art and sensibilities or general anime art direction at all. It's WEIRD is all.

I won't dig on the dude or his work beyond that, let them do as they wish. But that's my take on it anyways.

Not going to lie, I did not expect Vegeta's plan, so props for that. HOWEVER, this whole core-business is ever-so-slightly silly to me (ok, a lot). Cell explained it back in Z that one cell is enough for him to survive, he never talked about a semi-organ that he can juggle around in his body XD, big enough to grab like someone's intestines, and if you rip it out, he dies? This is just sloppy. Come on.

Kurotama was saying: Leveler was saying: Wait isn't the Shield supposed to keep participants in from the beginning? Goku, Vegito, Bra and Buu only bypass it because of Teleporting.
Maybe Vegeta knows a thing or two about teleporting
Well, "all" DB characters can teleport/blink over very short distances, so to TP out of the ring, he wouldn't exactly need IT or kai teleportation, especially when he was up againsts the wall... 2-4 meters blink is nothing for Vegeta ;)

Zefarg was saying: Well, "all" DB characters can teleport/blink over very short distances, so to TP out of the ring, he wouldn't exactly need IT or kai teleportation, especially when he was up againsts the wall... 2-4 meters blink is nothing for Vegeta ;)
Uh no, they were just moving fast where as teleporting actually instantly relocates you thus bypassing the issue of a wall or some other force that inhibits you from proceeding. So unless Vegeta figured out the same thing or has some kind of Phase Shift ability then he shouldn't be able to go through the barrier like that.

So far this fight has been underwhelming, Goku vs Uub brought back that old school Dbz feel with them trading blows and knocking the senses out of each other to where they could barely stand at the end this fight is just ki blast and dodging and the power scaling seems to be out of wack with an ssj2 fighting a buutenks character a holding his own this would not be an issue if Vegeta was stronger than Gohan but the tier list says an ssj2 can't beat an ssj3 so on and so forth except vegetto and bra I am not a fan of this power cap and tiering but I still enjoy the story

I sure hope we get some indication soon that cell is holding back or that vegeta has some novel speed technique because if I'm supposed to believe that a ssj2 (no matter how fpssj2) can somehow hold off a mystic+ opponent with sheer power level alone then I might as well be watching DB super with all of its horrendous power scaling garbage.

The power difference here should be so great that Vegeta should not have any reaction time against Cell's attacks. Just picture Gohan's ssj2 swiping the bag of senzus from perfect cell's hand at the Cell games. Cell should be beating vegeta the way Gohan beat fat buu during the tournament revolt.

DeathToKakarot was saying: gokemon was saying: ShadowMokujin was saying: Sega was saying: 孫ブラ was saying: A... th-that's Tenshinhan's technique.
lol
pretty sure this is Buu's technique


If he split biologically im sure the infighting would destroy him first before or after

remember he has Piccolo cells of regeneration he got chopped up so each on is an exact copy and it's own entity with a zenki boost from the Saiyan cells all because of Piccolo and frieza intellect and combat strategic thinking this has nothing to do with Tien's technique at all

But you have to remember, Piccolo can only regenerate. Canonically speaking, he's never been shown to create clones of himself. And DBM takes from the manga (and the general idea of certain movies)

Venkolm was saying: It was stated the four Cells were as strong as Goku, back then when they fought, by Android 16.
You people, seriously, why are you so d... (loses connection)

I mean if we are using stuff not canon to DBM, the Daizenshuu states that each Cell Jr. has power equal to Cell himself. (While obviously being less coherent)

I love this idea. Where does it say that the jrs are as strong as cell himself. That is also a line from the funimation dub, funnili enough lol

ShadowMokujin was saying: Sega was saying: 孫ブラ was saying: A... th-that's Tenshinhan's technique.
lol
pretty sure this is Buu's technique


If he split biologically im sure the infighting would destroy him first before or after

remember he has Piccolo cells of regeneration he got chopped up so each on is an exact copy and it's own entity with a zenki boost from the Saiyan cells all because of Piccolo and frieza intellect and combat strategic thinking this has nothing to do with Tien's technique at all

It was stated the four Cells were as strong as Goku, back then when they fought, by Android 16.
You people, seriously, why are you so d... (loses connection)

Majin Angel was saying: No.. but I’d bet that they’ll get up at the same time and let fighting continue.. I find it hard to believe that it’ll just be a race to stand up. Im sure they’ll say “ they both stood up, let’s change the rules again and let it continue “

Somebody didn't read Dragon Ball. Goku was able to stand up first, but he then immediately fell over unconscious, unable to declare his victory, while Jackie Chun (Roshi in disguise) was able to stand-up and give his victory pose then declare himself as the winner, taking the tournament.

JoCaRi was saying: So it's safe to assume this is the universe in which Buu wasn't smart enough to use de candy beam magic on Broly to beat him Remember candy vegito?

SSM12 was saying: ...why doesn't he just turn Broly into Candy and end it?
Vegetto was turned into Candy and could keep fighting. Not a good idea to have a small opponent with the same strength.

DarkClaw was saying: I also just realized - Broly must be super smelly! This dude hasn't changed his clothes in decades XD
His feet must reek. He hadnt taken his shoes off in years

How the hell did Videl and Pan die when Gohan took the brunt of that blast? Why didn't both of these idiots (Goku and Gohan) darted towards the Lookout when they had the chance? Any one of them could have got there in a blink of an eye at this point! AND WHY ARE YOU GOING ONLY SUPER SAIYAN WHEN SSJ3 IS BARE MINIMUM AT THIS POINT AGAINST BROLY, YOU FLIPPING IDIOT?! WHAT THE HELL IS THIS CONTRIVANCE?!

I already hate the direction of this story. Not the fact that Broly will eventually kill them all, but how much of an idiot ball has been dropped on all of their heads. Not nearly as much during the whole Bra fiasco, but it's so noticeable at this point.

Yeah. I called it last page.
Gohan was running as if some missile is gonna hit his town.
Only in place of missile it's broly's fireworks
Seems I was pretty close :)

Btw it's pretty strange gohan could not outrun the explosion.
Even pre ssj goku.was able to do that when he fled from telekinesis ball of final.form.frieza

supersaiyan2kakarot was saying: Damn if only Gohan knew how to use instant transmission.


Klaus was saying: And here we see the stupidity of an elite group of fighters that don't share their techniques (instant transmission sure would be useful here).


Xadirius was saying: God damnit Goku, would to teach other people Instant Transmission already?

I doubt Goku is able to teach the Instant Transmission. As we saw in Super, Vegeta had to go to the Yardratians to learn it.

Superman55aa was saying: Don't won't to be that guy but-

Oh but that's accidental.
('・ω・')


Apart from that Gohan's house is right beside goku's. Isn't it.

Then where is he flying off to. Shouldn't he be going to meet his father first


Füchsin was saying: Pretty intense already. Shit is about to get real.

Kinda sucks that they all gonna die after enjoying peace and starting families , especially the families with little kids, like 18/Krillin, Gohan/videl and Vegeta\Bulma, assuming Marron and Bra are born yet. Iam also not sure Iam ready to see my boy Uub die a brutal death.

Children. It's again about THE CHILDREN. See, some villains have already tried leaving them alive but all they do is grow under their rule or devote their pathetic lives to revenge, usually both.

Really killing them is a act of kindness.
Broly will retract that kindness whether anyone likes or not

Serigof2 was saying: Lord was saying:

Sorry if I'm looking rude, but it's a lot of hypocrisy. I think I won't be coming back here for a long time, even more.

If you think it's hypocritical then you are clearly not understanding.

Bra is supposed to be a protagonist. Arguably, she's even supposed to be heroic. But most feel she is also a remorseless killer who got away with the equivalent of a slap on the wrist and was never properly given her dues for what she did, and never had to atone, which makes her difficult to swallow as a protagonist, and especially difficult to swallow that the other more heroic protagonists would simply accept it. The story expects you to continue treating Bra as if she isn't one of the villains despite doing the same things as them.

Everyone else you listed is an antagonist. They're evil. They're supposed to be evil. Them being unapologetic is good, because it means they are uncompromising as characters. People like to watch them be evil, knowing they're evil, and knowing that evil things is what they do. When one of them goes on a violent, uncontrolled rampage, people watch with the same awe and enjoyment one gets out of watching a disaster movie, and is under no illusions that they deserve to die by the end of it. No one would say they didn't deserve to be punished. But when Bra goes on a violent, uncontrolled rampage, she not only gets off lightly but it's someone else's fault.


;dr No one is mad Bra did evil things, they're mad she did evil things and got a slap on the wrist and is still expected to be treated as one of the protagonists when any of the villains who did the same things would have gotten reduced to dust for their trouble. People like villains for being good villains, people dislike Bra for being a bad protagonist.



Well, while it makes sense that heroes are expected to have good qualities while villains are expected to be evil, there is a lot of example and gray context. For example, in Harry Potter, Snape (an unpleasant "hero") is much more liked than Umbridge (a villain really evil) because the latter is an unbearable villain.


But what confuses me is that what’s happening to Bra is no different than what we’ve seen in Dragon Ball and it’s such a prevalent narrative that I don’t know why it bothers people so much less that they’ve always had a problem with it in series.

For example, why did Goku want to spare Vegeta after the first fight? It was never explained beyond Goku seeing him as a rival. Yes, he was beaten up by Frieza later, but that does not justify Gohan and Bulma acting all friendly with him and allowing him to live in luxury on earth. Later, Vegeta threatens to kill everyone (including Bulma) if they get in the way of activating the Androids and only Bulma gets mad about it and then they... Make a baby and live happily together in that luxury Capsule mansion. (Of course, he is beaten later, but still.)


So do you see the pattern? Vegeta is never formally punished by the protagonists and whenever he suffers it is only due to their actions and in the hands of other villains.

But Android 18 and Android 17 take the cake. They were considered dangerous and sociopathic in the future of Mirai Trunks, but Cell stole the spot, Android 18 is rescued while Android 17 is revived (note that no one thought to rebuild Android 16), but then what happened to them? Were they punished for their crimes? Absolutely nothing happened except Android 18 to make a baby and Android 17 to be remembered only when the plot wants it. But to be fair, I read that they were reworked in Dragon Ball Super, so maybe they received adequate developments?


And talking about the villains who ended up turning to dust, even they had a chance of redemption. Goku wanted to spare Radtiz because they were brothers, he knocked out Ginyu Forces (and Vegeta killed them anyway), would spare Frieza while Mirai Trunks and Gohan tried to talk Cell about his villainy, but the ones they did (maybe with exception of Ginyu Force who were unconscious)? They insisted and fought out of control and were killed by the heroes in self-defense.

And it makes me think that Bra is only being spared because she stopped attacking, but Gotenks made it clear that he would kill if she had remained out of control. In fact, when did Dragon Ball's protagonists ("heroes", not Vegeta in Namek) kill a vulnerable enemy? Only the most violent ones turn to dust while the others are left to walk the world, make babies and adopt a dog (Fat Buu) just because they stopped hitting the heroes.


And in my view, Bra uni 16 and Vegetto look like they were built to be more like villains, while Uni 18 should become the real heroic protagonists, but Salagir needs to focus more on Uni 18.


Sorry if I'm looking rude or anything. I had a lot of problems right at the beginning of DBM, when people hated Bra for every little thing (for example, senzu during the fight against Cold was not against rules, but some think it violated some sacred law or something), so I am not going to continue the conversation (yes, Bra is not innocent, but some of the things she does are quite disposable).


But I appreciate commenting constructive comments because I'm just sharing thoughts and I don't want to cause any fights or controversy.

@prof.Ripper PhD

How is it disappointing? Cell stomped Gohan when he was in SSJ, yet SSJ2 Gohan completely stomped Cell. The power difference between the two is simply insane.

On both the manga and anime, Universe 18 Vegeta talked about the Universe 18 version of the Original Legendary Super Saiyan (the one from 1000 years ago) being a golden giant ape that exploded, because it was unable to control it is own power.

On Universe 2 and Universe 5 the point of divergence is that on those two universes the Original Legendary Super Saiyan (the one from 1000 years ago) is a legendary super saiyan girl who can fully control her own power instead of being that golden giant ape that exploded.

XeroReaver was saying: Huh I was always under the impression that saiyans originated on a different planet because of U6 saiyans in super. I always though space travel is what lead them to taking over the tuffle planetOn the anime and the manga, the Universe 18 version of the Original Legendary Super Saiyan (the one from 1000 years ago) was unable to control her own power and she exploded, destroying the original saiyan homeworld on the Universe 18 timeline.

The Universe 2 and Universe 5 versions of the Original Legendary Super Saiyan (the one from 1000 years ago) can fully control their own power, thus they neither exploded nor destroyed the original saiyan homeworld.

Nappa can't be 8k strength. Remember how easily Goku defeated him in the OG Z. And Goku at that time was just over 8k himself. If Nappa was also 8k they'd have had an even fight, not a squash match.

Angry Old Namekian was saying: YardratVegeta was saying: If bra isn't playing around she is pretty pathetic giving piccolos and gohans any chance at all. Screw ultimate gohan i never thought he was the strongest in dbz ever .. supreme kai cant even gauge there powers unless they transform so saying gohan is the strongest is funny because goku and vegeta are dead so is that why they didn't count ? Earlier bra lost control and almost killed gohan in space supposedly so in this situation she should just one shot everyone with that sword and be done

People say Mystic Gohan is the most powerful non-fused character in DBZ because the creators on record as having confirmed it.
When did he say that?

Do you have any source to back that up?

Oh come on.

There are 2 possible interpretations here. Either her ssj2 is so weak that Mystic Gohan can actually overpower her. Which means her ssj1=mystic Gohan is bullshit.

Or she constantly grabs senzu beans the moment she gains a serious wound.


Now if Salagir wants to paint her as a "pragmatic, no nonsense fighter", he's failing.

Because what this shows, is someone who doesn't take fights seriously. Trash talks her opponents, spams teleport, (like has she even once used her own speed? She constantly teleports) then immediately grabs a senzu bean the moment something goes wrong. Then goes back to trash talking.

She comes across as a weak willed spoiled brat who can't be relied upon.

AND WE AREN'T EVEN SHOWN THE WOUND SHE GOT SHE WAS BLASTED IN THE BACK AND HER BACK ISNT SHOWN

Lets look at the facts:

Gets surprised by Ginyu: senzu bean and trash talks opponent, before taking out her wounded enemy in one hit.

Gets her arm blown off by Cell, doesn't even wait for her arm to fall down, eats senzu beans.

Gets hit by Gohans kamehamea: teleports to Piccolo and eats a senzu bean.

In all her fights she has screwed up: she killed Zangya, despite being ordered not to. She nearly got her universe eliminated by nearly attacking Bojack. She got overpowered by Ginyu and he by all rights should have won that fight, She lost control of herself against Buu and blasted Gohan and Vegito unconscious. Essentially giving Buu the victory. She lost her arm against Cell, she gets blown to bits by Gohan,...

She shows no endurance at all. Compare this to Gohan, who has been continuing to fight, saving his brother, saving his wife, eliminating his arch nemesis, consoling good Bra about her stress, continuing to fight despite seeing his wife die TWICE, tries to reason with Bra, then goes all in against someone he knew his whole life.

That's emotional and physical endurance.

Bra is literally the "the 10 year old kid who trash talks you in first person shooter, yet uses hacks himself and calls you a cheater when you beat him. Before telling you he fucked your mother and then starts wining forgetting his mic is still on.

I mean, I get it, you're wounded, be pragmatic, but that's her default response the MOMENT she's injured. Without those beans, she'd be a one armed, eliminated, heavily wounded majin right now. Her only accomplishment being mastering her ssj2 state because she's brainwashed.

In conclusion:

There's a difference between being a pragmatic figher and a spoiled coward who can't handle setbacks. Bra is the later.

DeathToKa­karot was saying: YardratVe­geta was saying: i think gohan is just talking and we get a shot of gokus butt as he references gokus tail but we know whats up and he is just talking to himself and not putting anything together. If not then goku could have grown his tail back since before we had the perma detailing by kami it seems random so like gohan (kid) he could regrow his tail and killed gohan later because he didnt expect it to regrow. Later on trunks and goten etc must have been taken care of early .... if theres something about that i dont know i


According to the Daizenshuu, Goten and Trunks were born without tails, it's the reason behind their huge potential compared to Gohan at that same age

Actually the S-Cells is the reason behind that. Their fathers were much stronger at the time of conception, so the children started off with a higher potential and growth rate, which allowed them to reach Super Saiyan so young so easily.

i think gohan is just talking and we get a shot of gokus butt as he references gokus tail but we know whats up and he is just talking to himself and not putting anything together. If not then goku could have grown his tail back since before we had the perma detailing by kami it seems random so like gohan (kid) he could regrow his tail and killed gohan later because he didnt expect it to regrow. Later on trunks and goten etc must have been taken care of early .... if theres something about that i dont know i