I'll stake all my pride on the Prince's victory. If not, then I'll change my PFP to a Goku related for the rest of the serialization of the comic (and cut onions as I do it).

This gives me Black Smoke Shenron vibes... an overpowering smoke spreading everywhere!

Didn't you learn anything about Saiyan biology? They grow stronger as they fight, he's gonna win some way or another. Cell is just imitation Saiyan, so Vegeta will out-grow him. (lol)

No but seriously, I think narratively there's obvious motions towards a Goku vs. Vegeta fight, or at least to trick us into thinking there's gonna be one, and we already know at this point that Vegeta does have a hidden form/state/advancement/whatever derived from the SS2 transformation.

Counting Vegeta out this early is kinda dumb. To give up at this point when he's got a way more worthy opponent up ahead of him... it's just not his style.
1 Replie(s)

I do want Uub to win, but it'll be pretty disappointing to see Goku having done so little throughout the entire tournament. In any case I also feel like plot dictates Goku's gotta win for the legendary rematch.

So Uub is certainly not going to be able to use that arm anymore. I don't really have doubts about his stamina though; while he's on a timer I think he's clearly willing to go until his entire body breaks down. Probably a hyper-adrenaline rush or just the drive to win. After all, I assume if he's given this thing a name, he's been trying it out in training (unless this is actually what Zen Buu gave him, perhaps as a memory, in which case it would be equally as effective for the mental aspect)

Goku, though, has been taking hits like a punching bag. Uub has definitely done a complete number on him; torn and pants completely torn up and he's bleeding even more than Uub is. Not to mention an explosion to the face like that could definitely crack a neck; reminds me of when Cell broke Piccolo's just with one punch. In any case, though, I also have hope for Goku. Mostly because I want to see him fight Vegeta. And have Vegeta win. lol

People here are seriously counting Uub out after one kick?

You all would make great anime minions with THAT level of underestimation. Don't count Uub out yet. Expect this fight to last more than a chapter.

In any case: Asura's art, in and out of battle, is completely godly...! 1 Replie(s)

Hoping that Vegeta's advanced SSJ2 form or whatever it may be is enough to overcome Cell. I like Cell, but my love for Vegeta is infinite :x lol.

Goku vs Uub will be an interesting. Naturally I'm hoping Goku wins so we can see Vegeta vs. Goku, but I feel much more strongly about Uub than I do Goku, lol. If the circumstances weren't what they were, I'd be rooting for Uub even being the underdog.

Zen Buu vs. XXI is any man's game, but if XXI is really the "final enemy" then I suspect Zen Buu will only fight up to the point he figures out any weaknesses, and report back to the Grand Supreme Kai.

Gast better stomp Bra.

The Gogeta fusion theory is interesting but how is a win decided in that scenario? and who's to say the battle between him and XXI will last only 30 minutes when XXI can just BFR him to his time-warped dimension? Fusion Dance fusion actually appears highly disadvantageous in this situation.

Gast and Vegito represent both sides of the DBM Fandom... 1 Replie(s)

Shoutout to Superman55aa for calling that Vegeta would go to Bra as the first thing two pages ago.

While I am very much averse to Bra's character and actions, she is indubitably a "child" or more specifically immature (the term that matters more here). The frontal cortex (AKA the part of our brain responsible for decision-making and moral judgment) doesn't fully develop until one is 24 years of age, and the to make matters worse our limbic systems (responsible for emotions) go haywire around puberty.

So what do you get at 14-16 years of age? A hormone-influxed teen who acts more on impulse than rationality. Only once we reach that landmark of 24, are we able to properly control our emotions.

And keep in mind this is on average, assuming the child lives a normal life. Bra... is very much not normal, and I wouldn't be surprised with how she's been lauded as the Savior "Goddess" of the universe, that deep down she's come to believe that her rage moments are acceptable and at times appropriate in order to get the job done (even in spite of conditioning to control those feelings COUGHgohanERHM.) When it comes to Majin Bra, it probably takes that, adds a lot of craving for bloodshed, and boom, we get our chaotic, out-of-control Bra x100.

So there's your psychological perspective. It's probably the one part of Bra's character that makes sense to me... the way everyone manages to forgive her though, hah... hell no.
1 Replie(s)

Woah, these pages are definitely a battleground...

For a second I thought it said "Legacy of Vegeta", and then I thought "really?? Vegeta's going to get fodderized even after all that buildup... again???"

Thank goodness I was two letters away from the truth.

And ughh, I just realized I posted the wrong picture for one of my examples. Sorry again :. Fixed it and made it a little more coherent too



To make this comment not entirely worthless...



Well Daizenshuu is considered canon by most due to its approval from Toriyama as a Dragon Ball encyclopedia https://w...-toriyama-intro, although keep in mind this was WAYY before Super and therefore contradicts it for that reason. It might as well be Word of the Author.

Firstly I'd like to say that I wasn't able to edit my comment above, which is why I'm posting another. Sorry! ^^



Daizenshuu listed Vegeta along with Goku as having achieved the form through "hard training", and takes care to make the distinction that Gohan achieved the form through rage. Otherwise they would have said "Vegeta first achieved it through Babidi's magic" https://t...6626565/photo/3

Even if you don't trust Daizenshuu for Z, there's quite a bit of evidence in the manga that implies that he had already attained it.

First, Vegeta's multiple comments on Gohan's strength heavily imply that Vegeta had already achieved it.
Even before the Tournament he very confidently questions Gohan's strength, and the fact he acknowledges Gohan was "far more powerful", which would imply the 2x power gap between SS and SS2, heavily hints that Vegeta has achieved SS2.
https://q...41002f869f.webp

On Babidi's ship he says "We (meaning him and Goku) are stronger than he is (Gohan) now". It would be odd to group him and Goku together if he hadn't surpass. This was also in the context of the Dabura fight, in which most evidence points to Gohan being SS2 during that fight.
https://q...41002f869f.webp

He is not shocked at all when Goku turns SSJ2 in front of Yakon, rather he says "So Kakarot can do it too?" Even if you think that he only said this because he's seen Gohan do it, let me remind you that this would be EXTREMELY out of character for Z Vegeta, who is thrown into a rage every time Goku surpasses him. https://q...2ea9f4132e.webp.



They were equal, and both had their fair share of gaining the upper hand over the other. It's just that Vegeta took the opportunity to knock him out.
3 Replie(s)

Reminds me of Final Impact.

Same here. He landed the finishing punch(es) on the last page. If this was the Tenkaichi Budōkai then Goku would have been eliminated even if they both ended up on the ground since he's the one that got rammed into it first.

And bonus points for Vegeta being the one to get the last... stand?

Yeah, on that note I forgot SSJ3 Goku against Innocent Buu was suppressed. Though, then again, that WAS still while he was dead. After that we'd never seen a suppressed SSJ3 ever again, he'd or Gotenks would always be starting at full power.

Maybe making the form stronger is possible, but that'd require some... otherworldly training. Hehe. At the very least Goku's base can become stronger, so there's that.




And here I was like "tHiS iS pRoBaBLY tHaT nOvEl sToRY". I didn't catch that. My bad lol




Yep. He laughs, but we know that Vegeta's won every one-to-one fight against Goku ;)




IMPOSSIBLE??! YOU CAN'T NOT LIKE THIS STYLE!!!

(On a serious note, you're the first person to say such. It's certainly different.)

Isn't it impossible to master Super Saiyan 3 in the living world? The form is vastly different than any other Super Saiyan form in that it literally requires to push your body to it's absolute physical limit, a limit that didn't matter in the otherworld, and thus achievable for Goku in the other world, but probably not feasible while alive.

I highly doubt that he could do what he did with SS with SS3. There's no conserving energy with that form since you HAVE to push out your max power to even access it. It's literally Super Saiyan Grade 3 with a ton of speed, strength, and ki, but burns even faster.

So imo even if the power was mastered to an extent, the drain would always be an inherent flaw in the form. And I mentioned on a post a couple pages ago that this special seems VERY similar to Novelization #2, so I wouldn't be surprised if Vegeta mentions achieving a new Super Saiyan form that utilizes one's power without having to push out your maximum from the beginning.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm ruling out Goku from ascending in any way. Rather, I think both Goku and Vegeta would have recognized that it's an extremely flawed form by now, and while Goku would probably find a smart way to use it (SS2/SS3 switching?) Vegeta may just ignore that entirely and chase something new. Goku would probably hold the advantage in raw stats, but Vegeta would have the edge in stamina.

...anyways. that Super Saiyan 4 question is interesting, but I'm not sure it's as much as regeneration as returning your body to its most powerful state possible. 1 Replie(s)

Absolutely! (Technically this is Toei, but same laws apply...).





Anyways, just a couple reasons why the animation in the Saiyan Saga will always be my favorite. The "rigid style" might look cooler to some, but never to me.
3 Replie(s)

INB4 people say this is "out of character" for him. At this point, the guy's a complete softie when it comes to his battle-loving people--he's just typically putting on his bitter exterior. Besides, he probably shows affection to Bra in other ways, probably akin to the way he does in Dragon Ball Super. We won't know till we know though, since this is a different continuity.



Anyways, props to Arcady--he hid a clever reference to the original Majin Vegeta v. Goku fight in those first and third panels. I don't know the exact place of it because the origins are unclear, but I know for a fact that those are the card arts of the AGL SSJ2 Goku (Angel) and STR Majin Vegeta in DBZ: Dokkan Battle, and their arts are usually either inspired by work from the original anime or manga, or from a game. (So, perhaps they're not actually from the fight, but made independently on part of Dokkan's artists, but either way, the poses are quite similar).

https://v...=20190325064702

https://v...=20190325064954

Now if it were entirely on his own accord, I'd still be shocked at the similarities. But the art is über good.

I actually just realized that this story is probably going to be a retelling of the third chapter of the novelization (not sure if anyone else has said this). It's a year off and from a 3rd-person omniscient view, but so far matches the setting, characters, and action to the T.

https://w.../chapter-3.html

Otherwise, I'm interested to see what this might be. I'm less concerned about the thing about Goku's wear "looking like Whis's gi" (even though it's probably his EoZ gi, but the coloring seems to make me thing it's just a variant of his normal one) and more as to why Vegeta is wearing casual clothing while sparring....


More interestingly, it shows that Vegeta has clear intentions to surpass Super Saiyan 3 by unlocking a form that uses all of its power and none of its drain (almost like Ultimate Gohan, but would probably in the end be more like Strengthened Super Saiyan 2 as shown by DBS manga Future Trunks). If this is true, it'd give him a much bigger shot against Cell.

I believe king 3 speculated the idea and I jumped onto that wagon, but now I've got higher hopes for it than ever.

I mean if this is Vegeta vs. Goku, I hope it's not something as simple as "Goku has SSJ3, what an easy win". We all know that when not dead SSJ3 is an extremely flawed form, its ki drain is atrocious and therefore not a good form for prolonged use in. So I'm hoping that Goku acknowledges that in some way or form, perhaps using it in short bursts or something of the like, or (if we know Goku) doesn't use it at all and just stays SSJ2. Plus since this is probably more of a sparring match, it's not like Goku is going to instantly go for the kill, so that provides a lot of different opportunities.

That gives Vegeta a much better shot, if you combine that with the dude's everlasting will and durability of a space cockroach (he was still a hardy one even when not dead), and would actually make for a lot less predictable fight. Even as a fan of Vegetables it's obviously going to be an uphill battle for the Prince, and his shot at victory is probably even lower since EoZ Goku was probably still stronger than him, but I'd prefer something that isn't completely trite. But I feel like the chances of that are nil, or we just get "it ends in a draw cuz we don't want to upset either fanbase" without any substantial fighting. (Which is a smart move, knowing how rabid DB fans can get, but at least make it entertaining...)

Oh yeah, Obligatory "cover looks cool as shit" comment. It really does, I like the variance between the art styles, tells me that the artist's non-serious or cutesy figures aren't going to be looking like chizzled sculptures (thank god). The Pan in the corner also still preserves that raggedy sense that Goku and Vegeta give me, so it's not like much is lost except for the deformation of facial features.



Same here, but oddly enough I kinda doubt he does, and I feel like Vegeta wouldn't be the type to pursue SSJ3 either (it's almost impossible in the living world due to the strain you have to go through). Perhaps he's just trained at lot... like he always does. But a new technique or form(??? lol) would be nice mixup.

1 Replie(s)

Seeing as this seems to be the backdrop of our little talk on 1743, the context changes this to less more "I can't let a power greater than mine exist" Vegito, to "I'm going to kill you before you can ever harm this universe" Vegito.

And really it makes me think if he'll actually do it... Sure, Vegito's an intergalactic "freedom fighter" or whatever and seems to do whatever it takes to help the Kais maintain balance in the universe, but would he go to the point of killing his own daughter? And if so, would he do it without remorse?

To put it simply, this moment has piqued my interest more than the rest of the last two chapters... 2 Replie(s)

Or you know, just Vegeta's classic tendency to explode.

https://youtu.be/pY4uwyRFgUw?t=162
https://youtu.be/vJXZgvAJkAQ?t=114
https://youtu.be/b3bLbAP6jBE

(The actual move is called Super Explosive Wave, barring the last two videos which I'm sure you know the name of.)

I must say, even if it is French, it's clever usage of the Arabic writing system to make it feel more "mystical" (although basically all of the letters are bastardized to make it legible...). Probably one of the first thing I noticed when learning how to spell (not speak, lol i still suck at that) in my country's version of the script was that you could arrange a lot of the letters to look like English words. :P

Anyways, can we get someone here with a better translation? Google translate doesn't do this justice at all. Unless I am supposed to be reading this as "This is small and you don't know what I'm saying ... Hadoken and Kamehameha are all the same but not me because I make a Slavic dragon ..."

(Maybe she's taking a page from Hiei's book and will attack our heroes with a flaming dragon.)


1 Replie(s)

Obligatory "Next Dimension!" video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BffZ0vjMH2I

Don't tell me the continuity is going to hell now -.-

Clearly this is where the personality of Vegeta was inherited by his children...

Well, it seems U18 Bra only exists here to die, considering what Cell said about her.

If that is true, and this is where the plot is going, then Cell is likely still alive.

Or perhaps, Cell isn't even required. U18 Bra getting hurt might be Gohan's last trigger.

Whatever the case is, I'm glad to see someone who isn't the same two-three characters, even if there's a good chance her role while living will be limited.

So... is Phipsil dead or something? 1 Replie(s)

Wait... I just realized something.

Even if Bra takes off the boot, the Carbonite will keep spreading once the boot hits the ground.

Unless she knows to eradicate the glove, that is, which she might considering Eleim basically told her what to do in their fight, and apparently Bra has extremely good memory/analytical skills considering how she knew to look for Cell's nucleus, even though she'd never fought him. Either way, the point is that this could end either really well or really badly.

https://w...878.html#h_read

Carbonite can be destroyed before it gets too dangerous. Otherwise, it's still a pyrrhic victory since the Dragon Balls are (probably??) still intact.

And honestly at this point, I can see the following happening:

1. Bra proceeds to beat down Phipsil, before noticing the carbonite on her foot. Bra removes her boot; Phipsil dies in vain.
2. The Buu/Gohan strategy fails (I can't remember where but it's been said that Bra's been trained to escape absorption) and eradicates Buu, while injuring Gohan, in a single blast.
3. Gohan is the only fighter alive.
4. From here events are up to debate, but eventually Zen Buu will probably consider this enough "enjoyment" to sate his tastes and kill/absorb Babidi. Bra is released from the Majin control and retrieves the rest of the gang on the desolate planet.
5. Maybe the events where Vegito is pissed will happen and we'll have a Majin Bra event all over again... yay.

(If you couldn't tell, I really hope I'm wrong. But I see 1-3 realistically happening.)

Well no doubt she has to do it discreetly, but unless Bra somehow doesn't notice the growing Carbonite on her boot, this is rendered ineffective. As you've shown yourself the same trick won't work twice without a miracle. It is right to say that there wasn't another way to do it without some obvious physics/gymnastics/sudden movements involved, but still considering what Bra's capable of it seems to be for naught.

So hey... let's hope Bra's battle senses have taken a toll. Maybe she'll be distracted by the release killing Phipsil will give her; I mean it does seem like a thing Bra would rightly brag over.

I at least don't want to see such a death in vain.




Aaaand this just destroyed what little hope I had.

Holy crap, so it was Carbonite suicide? Or am I stupid and it's just all blood?

...Alright, but even so it wasn't very smart. Bra's feet/boots are her least expendable part of her body. She can fly, so all she has to do is hover to get around. It'll reduce her mobility at least.

Now if she had shot in the center... that would've been a sure kill. 1 Replie(s)

Potential is the key word. Infinite/enhanced* Potential (which all Hybrid Saiyans have, not just Gohan) does not equal infinite power; it only means that there is no ceiling in terms of growth. Not only is this the reason why Gohan's Potential Unlocks in the series are significant (removing the mental barriers to maximize the amount of hidden power he has), but if Gohan really had infinite power, then every Dragon Ball villain would be dead meat every time Gohan got angry.

With that being said, that means that Gohan cannot get infinitely strong in a single moment--meaning, he still has limits--only over time and with training (which pushes the limit back further).

Another thing: What would raging accomplish at this point? Bra has been capable to handle a powered-up Ultimate Gohan already and handily executed him when his rage resided. It's not the time for rage-filled fists, and I'm pretty sure U18 Gohan realizes that.

*Because as Blaze said, this word is used very loosely in Dragon Ball. Not to mention the potential of Hybrid Saiyans is poorly explained; all we know is that they've got higher potential than pure-blooded Saiyans but lack the same instinct for battle, and only Gohan has been show to get strong in rage.

Is that so? Do you have any substantial evidence?

And even so, it certainly doesn’t change much—all it does is make Cell’s placement up for debate. So Gohan would still be considerably above those participants. We have no idea how much training Goku, Vegeta, or Uub have done either, so it is only appropriate to place them where the canon manga has them (which as you know is the canon this manga succeeds)

U16 Gohan is far stronger than many participants in the tournament when enraged, including U17 Cell who he eradicated with a single shot when the latter killed U18 Videl. U17 Cell was able to kill U3 Hirudegarn + Tapion with ease, and considering the complete Hirudegarn was far beyond the level of Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks in Movie 13, I think it can be assumed that this Gohan is a lot more powerful than when he fought Buu. It can be assumed that U18 Gohan is relative in power. In fact, if we were to make a tier list of participants left in the tournament including Gohan, it'd probably go like this in terms of power:

Tier 0: (probably in this order)
XXI, Gast, Zen Buu

Tier 1:
Son Bra, Gohan (both universes), Cell, U18 Goku, Uub, U18 Vegeta (depends on how strong Vegeta really is) 2 Replie(s)

In the event this "carbonite kamikaze" actually is a thing, then let's hope it actually works. From my knowledge there are no more senzus left. Bra looted the Piccolos of their senzus, clearly, and now besides Goten, U18 Bra, Grand Supreme Kai, Gohan (+ mini Jr.), and Phipsil (and technically Kakarotto, but he's incapacitated) there's no one else alive, and I highly doubt any of those 5 have any Senzu on their hands. In addition both of Bra's senzu gloves were destroyed.

Therefore if Bra does cut off her limbs to rid herself of carbonite, she'll be permanently incapacitated herself. Sounds like a road to victory!

Phipsil... going into the ring armorless?

That's suicide.




U18 Gohan wouldn't know that.

Boosh, I've been trolled.

For every kill that Bra gets, I pray that her retribution is a thousandfold worse.

Not because she's a "Mary Sue" or whatever else people call her but because she's stalling this goddamn story from progressing. And if we're going to have a character go berserk like this, they better not be left inculpable

أنا آسف! أحضرتهم هنا.

على الرغم من أنني لا أتحدث العربية أفضل بكثير مما يفعلون. أنا أتعلم لكن بالكاد أستطيع كتابة جملة دون ارتكاب خطأ. لذلك استخدمت للتو ترجمة جوجل لجعلها سهلة >.<

Because it's the Arabic page.




Sorry! I couldn't resist!! 1 Replie(s)

https://w...727.html#h_read <--- The actual page. Tiny Cell Jr. says "Take this!"

Don't get your panties in a bunch people, they're probably just translating. Be patient. 6 Replie(s)

Buu's eyes have never been wider.

Oh yeah. He's definitely going to kill him in one twisted way or another.

wait what's all the stuff with the triangle about