I'm just a huge fan. And in general, when I read or watch something, I tend to remember it. :)


Now we have the opportunity to shed some more light on the relationships between the two universes. During the tournament, there were only a handful of (on-screen) scenes. Mainly because the fights took place one after the other. Now we have enough time to show how the characters interact with each other.


Okay, I see. Your first point was a little confusing, but you've clarified it now.


So what? U16 Pan is in the same group as U18 Pan, Goku, and Uub. That doesn't mean she's part of U18. Why isn't U16 Pan standing next to someone from her universe, such as her in-universe grandfather, Vegetto? ... Maybe because she wanted to be with her alter ego at that moment? Maybe because she wanted to be closer to her alternate grandfather before the fusion, for a change? If that's the case, why can't U18 Trunks do the same thing as Pan? Spend some time with an alternate father figure, for a change. Similar to Pan, a father figure he never met, but only knows existed.


According to your logic, if the person next to a U16 character is a clear indication that they must also be from U16, then what about the Pans? What about Gast standing inbetween both U12 characters. What about Gotenks standing next to Buu? What about Vegeta standing alone and not being a fusion between 2 universes, etc. You pick out a situation that lends weight to your explanation, but the other scenes with different characters are just a coincidence, mixed together at random? That's a textbook example of cherry-picking, if I ever saw one.


We are following the novel continuity in this debate. This means that U16 Trunks also knows the new fusion dance. In the novel, Vegetto memorized the new fusion dance between U18 Goten and U18 Trunks during the battle against ZenBuu, and then taught it to his U16 Goten and U16 Trunks during the secondary tournament, outside the stadium. That was literally the reason why both Vegetto and U16 Gotenks were disqualified in the secondary tournament, because they missed their fights because they were outside the arena rehearsing the new dance.
Btw, I also found this to be a silly novel addition, because it immediately negated the unique difference between U16 Gotenks and U18 Gotenks. That one version knows the better dance and the other doesn't. To be precise, in the novel, at the time of the MR-Arc, both U18 Goten and U18 Trunks, as well as U16 Goten and U16 Trunks, know how the superior fusion dance works.


I have to strongly disagree here. It's the least obvious thing in the entire DBM project (imo). It's the most confusing detail of all. It is much more obvious that Vegetto is treated as the main antagonist from the start, who will lose his temper at any moment, or that U9 Trunks and U9 Bulma are part or not part of the novel respectively comic continuity, or that Phipsil was supposedly present from the start of the DBM tournament in the DBM-Colored continuity respectively only off-screen in the regular comic continuity. etc.

The interdimensional version of Gotenks in the novel so far makes no sense to me at all, especially when we consider the MR-Arc aftermath. I find it hard to believe that anyone would look at Page 1827 and Page 1829 and say with complete conviction that it makes more sense for U16/U18 Gotenks to give this sermon against Vegetto than a full U16 Gotenks.

What does U18 Trunks contribute to the monologue that Gotenks delivers in the MR-Arc aftermath? U18 Trunks knows nothing about Vegetto and U16, except for what he learned during the DBM tournament, so he couldn't possibly express such a devastating opinion. Unless people claim that everything Gotenks said about Vegetto came from U16 Goten. But that raises the question of why not just U16 Gotenks from the beginning, where both U16 Trunks and U16 Goten have memories of Vegetto and their family. It kinda undermines U16 Trunks role as the son of Vegetto, if another version of him with no experience and memory of Vegetto have the exact same opinion and comes to the exact same conclusion.

interesting statement, I would add the following to your comment.

Hypothetical scenario.
A new user starts reading the DBM comic. However, this person has not read the novel, nor any comments on the website, including those by Salagir.
Honest question: would this new person assume that the Gotenks stranded on the asteroid is U16 Gotenks, or a cross between U18 Trunks and U16 Goten? Would this new person jump to that conclusion based solely on the comic?


That's why I explicitly mentioned multiverse travel. Only U1 can do that. This means that if a U1 Varga, a U10 Varga, or a U18 Varga uses the technology to travel to other universes, it would only work for a U1 Varga, even though all Varga variations would be biologically identical. This is a hard rule in DBM. Therefore, it is not so far-fetched to assume that fusions between universes also follow hard rules. It may not be the case, but that is exactly what one could have said about multiverse travel.


In this regard, I have a handfull examples.
— Uub uses magic to reattach his severed arm to his torso in the fight against Majin Buu in round 3. That happens in the novel, but not in the comic.
— Zen Buu shields any energy for the stranded fighters on the asteroids, so there's no way they can find the arena themselves. This happens in the novel, but not in the comic.
— U9 Videl and U9 Trunks tell us that they are married. This happens in the novel, but not in the comic.
etc.

If the creator had wanted a certain fact to be canon, the thinking goes, they should have included it in the work to begin with.
That's literal the case with 3 other DBM novel incidents.
The fanfic 'One Way' already covered the events of Future Gohan vs Future Majins in 2010, which was then told in revised form in 2013 in the Special Chapter 32. The same fanfic also covered the events of Mecha-Freeza & King Cold vs Z-Warriors in 2010. That was also sort of re-released in revised form then in 2019 in Special Chapter 71. And a third example. The main novelization of DBM showed a flashback in Chapter 3 (2009) of how U18 Vegeta, Goku, Gohan, Pan and Uub are in HTC and Vegeta ends up attacking Gohan to show how far behind he and Goku still are in terms of power level. This one chapter was retold in 2020 in Special Chapter 78 in an altered form.

I stand by my opinion that if the DBM team really wants to establish something from one of the DBM novels as canon, the most meaningful solution would be to introduce it in the form of the comic, which they have done in at least three cases. This can also be done in other places. And the ironic thing is that most of the details from the novel could be confirmed retrospectively with a single text box in the comic. In fact, in most cases, you wouldn't even need to use a whole page, just a single panel with a thought bubble/text bubble.


Yes, in the case of Piccolo, DBM will either have to do it as on page 1601, where extra text boxes are used to indicate which Piccolo is which. Or we will do it as in the first 1000 pages of DBM, where you simply have to figure out which is which from the context and the person standing directly next to Piccolo. haha 1 Replie(s)

I absolutely disagree with the notion of a Gotenks fusion between U16 Goten & U18 Trunks happened on the asteroid. Honestly I don't understand at all why this was added in the Novel when later an extremely important character related event happens between Gotenks & Vegetto.

Whenever something happens regarding the fusion that seems even remotely unusual, someone comments on it or at least acknowledges it.
— Gotenks vs Gotenks. Admittedly the first appearance, so understandable why there is more focus on the characters than usual.
— At dinner at the end of the first round. Gotenks wants to take Son Bra's bowl of rice. No one mentions anything, which we logically guess is U16 Gotenks, because it's the most logical thing to do in this situation.
— In the Gotenks vs Neko Majin tournament fight, all sorts of things are commented on. Regarding the fusion, Goten & Trunks personality, the rules, etc. So people yet have the urge to comment on stuff when it comes to Gotenks.
— In the tournament fight Gotenks vs ZenBuu. Piccolo is surprised at how the two merge into Gotenks. Later we get a panel with U18 Gohan, Goku & Vegeta who are amazed at Gotenks' new fusion dance.
— Chapter 63, on the asteroid with the stranded tournament participants. Gotenks shows up and once again acts like the big guy, only to be humiliated by Zen Buu, while the others watch this with amusement. Not a single hint as to whether there is anything out of the ordinary about the fusion. If it was a blend of U16 & U18, wouldn't that have literally been the perfect opportunity to showcase it at that moment? Any comment from anyone, Goku, Vegetto, Trunks, Pan, Buu, anyone? No? Doesn't seem to matter, I guess.

An event that has astronomical implications for DBM lore. Because a successful fusion between U16 and U18 members proves that fusions between people from other universes work. One could have simply introduced a hard rule about how something like this just doesn't work, (similar to the Multiverse trip that only U1 can do). Otherwise it says a Namekian fusion between Piccolo & Gast would be possible and the characters in-universe would know about it. Buu could have absorbed people from other universes, so far it's only been hinted that he wanted to, but with a U16/U18 Gotenks this theory would be much more steadfast as ZenBuu didn't want or want to absorb Broly. Potara fusions between characters from other universes, etc. This is so extremely important for future DBM plots that it would be harebrained to just let something like this happen off-screen. And no one ever acknowledge this event... ever.

So let's humor the thought it would be U16/U18 Gotenks on the asteroid. Just as a thought experiment. What would be the continuing implication? U16/U18 Gotenks would be the one in chapter 79, the one preaching a sermon about Vegetto, Son Bra and their family condition on page 1827 & 1829. For once, this is an extremely important personal situation for U16 and in the middle of it U18 Trunks, who makes up 50% of Gotenks. And absolutely no one thinks it deserves a mention that it's not a pure U16 fusion saying something like that to Vegetto.

Ey, don't get me wrong. The idea for interdimensional fusions is pretty cool, and I think DBM should seriously consider this route sooner or later. But I think this is an extremely important aspect that you can't just ignore and claim it happened off-screen. 3 Replie(s)

Oh, arme U16 Videl. Sie muss den Tod ihrer Tochter zum zweiten Mal verkraften. Zum Glück ist U18 Pan da, um sie wenigstens mit ihrer bloßen Anwesenheit ein wenig zu trösten. Genau wie damals auf Page 497.

Vegetto ist abwesend, aber das wussten wir ja schon aus dem letzten Kapitel. Und schließlich wird die Tatsache, dass Uub fehlt, erneut erwähnt. U18 war sich seiner Abwesenheit bewusst (Page 2161), aber es ist schön, es in dieser Situation noch einmal bestätigt zu bekommen.

Gotenks wird noch entstehen, so wie es aussieht, aber mit U18 Goten und U16 Trunks. Ich bin gespannt, wie sich das entwickeln wird. 1 Replie(s)

This is the second time in DBM that U16 Videl finds comfort in U18 Pan after her own daughter died.

2 Replie(s)

Try using postimages_dot_org. For me, always a reliable website.


That's right. If Gast has developed a counterattack like Piccolo, then it means that Gast is currently on the move with the U8 people. It's hard to say whether he knocked them out immediately or not. I can't imagine him negotiating with them or anything like that.


I like that idea. ;)



I understand your point of view. However, I would ask that we refrain from bringing up topics such as GT unnecessarily. :) 1 Replie(s)

Ich kann das Gefühl nicht abschütteln, als wäre Piccolo's "In der Tat" irgendwie herablassend gemeint. Als ob er sarkastisch andeuten wollte, dass sich niemand für die Ultras interessiert. 1 Replie(s)

Good idea to look for other Namekians first. At least they know that other Namekians would be able to do what Piccolo does, thus increasing their radius and chances of survival.

And funny about the filler episode. I don't think anyone in the comments considered that Piccolo should use Multi-Form or something like that.

But Pan is pretty observant. For the second time, she's the first to spot someone from another universe. She's making herself useful, which is great. 4 Replie(s)

@chiefdude
Please don't double-post. You can edit your (first) comment within an hour, and add quotes, etc.


You have a good point.
I always assumed that the characters were like glass statues during the life skip. Knock them over once and they shatter, similar to Piccolo's stone statue in the Buu arc. But I didn't consider that someone with a power level of #17/#18 or even #16 would be strong enough to smash an entire mountain with a single punch.

We can actually assume that the reason Vegetto's or Goku's bodies were so vulnerable in Life Skip is not because their bodies without Ki are fundamentally fragile like delicate glass, but because IKL and XXI are at least cyborg power level tier.

Accordingly, a simple fall would not immediately kill Goku in Life-Skip. So, hypothetically speaking, if Lunch were to hit Vegetto's frozen body, nothing would happen. It would have to be a planet buster to truly cause damage.

Let's see if this hypothesis proves itself in the long run.


Not at all. It was explicitly shown how IKL is stronger than #16 or ZenBuu's recharged #18. It's only Yamcha who had a chance because he was also a martial artist.

On page 2161, it was already mentioned that Uub will be absent for a longer period of time. U18 could generally show more reaction to the fact that Uub actually missed the rest of the tournament. However, they all know that he is currently absent somewhere. Hopefully, this will be addressed again, because in this case, where XXI conjured up this forest of thorns, it would be appropriate to remind U18 that Uub is indeed missing.

Btw, please don't write in all caps. Thank you.



That would certainly be within the realm of possibility. In fact, anything is possible now that the tournament is over.

Or Goku forgot to factor in some important variables ... like this ;) xD
1 Replie(s)

Ah, Goku, you're lucky. The logic behind IKL's technique so far has left enough room for interpretation that his fall didn't have to kill him.

The way I interpret the second part of the page is that the spiky forest comes from somewhere else, not from U0. XXI is clearly responsible for it. The spiky forest on this page is already much larger than the asteroid where the stadium for the DBM tournament was located (reference page 1567). This means that if the environment is now much larger and the tournament participants are now much further apart than they were while in the stadium, then this must mean that the new environment has also changed the proportions between the tournament participants.

I guess the forest of spikes not only fell from the sky, but also broke out from below like a volcano, spreading the area many times over. 2 Replie(s)

Ich habe mir auch die Kommentare im englischen Teil durchgelesen. Und ich denke, ich kann definitiv mit dem Gag-Moment leben. Viele Leute haben gute Argumente geliefert, warum es der Logik hinter der neu eingeführten Technik nicht wirklich schadet, wenn Goku nicht zerbricht.

Auf so eine Seite haben wir lange gewartet. Haha, echt super witzig. Mehr davon bitte.

Das liegt in der Familie, denke ich.

Die Roboter können keinesfalls irgendwas ausrichten. Hier werden die RR Soldaten problemlos durch sie hindurchschneiden wie ein heißes Messer durch Butter.

Yamchu, der hält sich wacker, hoffentlich steht er bald wieder auf seinen Beinen.

Ach, Jaco ist auch Teil der Geschichte. Irgendwie hätte ich es erwarten sollen.

Er versucht sein Bestes, um eine Frau vor einigen Schlägern zu retten, obwohl er genau weiß, dass er sogar gegen ein einzelnes Kind in einem Kampf verliert.

Tapferkeit ist nicht die Abwesenheit von Angst, sondern die Überwindung von Angst.

Echt cool wie man alle drei Handlanger von Cooler beseitigt hat.

Dem kann ich nur zustimmen. Hoffentlich hat man die interne Logik hinter der IKL-Technik nicht nur für einen Moment der Komik geopfert. Ich habe bei der ersten Überlegung gedacht, Goku's eingefrorener Körper hätte beim Aufprall auf den Boden zersplittern sollen. 1 Replie(s)

I just love how Cell doesn't give a damn about what U18 is doing. But maybe it's because Goku freezes the moment after he uses IT and his KI disappears. Since Goku pops up behind Cell, the bio-android may not even notice that Goku has appeared. Nevertheless, Cell's attitude towards U18 is portrayed in a wonderfully funny way.

Erst jetzt merke ich, Krillin blockt Hildegarn's Geisterhand ohne Kaioken ab. Zudem schafft er es einen Treffer noch rechtzeitig zu überwinden und den Aufprall auf den Boden zu verhindern. Also, entweder hat das Monster gerade durch die teilweise Manifestation nicht genug Kraft in die Schläge eingesetzt, oder Krillin ist sehr viel widerstandfähiger als wir alle dachten.

Der Begriff Fanservice hat sich in den letzten Jahrzehnten auch etwas gewandelt. Seit 20 Jahren werden alten Fanchises wiederbelebt, welche mit "Fanservice" am Leben gehalten werden. Nicht aus Passion und Innovation, sondern um den Fans sich anzubiedern. Fanfiction hatte lange Zeit einen schlechten Ruf allgemein. Inzwischen sieht man aber, was passiert, wenn passionierte Fans Inhalte produzieren. Es muss am Ende immer die richtige Person die Dinge vorantreiben.

I love Cell.
He's simply the best.

It makes me laugh, because in SDBH or something like that, there was a little arc where everyone had to work together, including Cell with Goku & Co. However, here, at first glance, you think, yes, Cell will join them to see what's going on. But no, he just takes off and does his own thing. LOL.

And Cell has a clear advantage, he can do everything himself. U18 has to stay close to Piccolo. That means either all of Cell's juniors are dead/frozen, or they've gone in other directions. But it's also cool and evil how Cell doesn't give a damn what happens to his juniors. 1 Replie(s)

@Why though?
Because it has already been mentioned that XXI is an ancient being who lived millions of years ago and only won in U5. And the only one who knows anything about his existence is Old Kaioshin.

This implies that if XXI possesses another set of Dragon Balls, it must originate from an era long before Guru, Kami, and others. This suggests that it may originate from a weaker Namekian.


@If it can give XXI an instant win spell, why not this?
First of all, Life Skip is not an instant win button. People are immune to it or are starting to develop countermeasures for it. It would be like calling IT, Mafuba, Tayoken-Kienzan combo, Candybeam, etc. instant win buttons.

Secondly, Life Skip is a technique. A technique that hypothetically could also be used by U5 or U1 IKL. However, traveling between universes is something special. Something that, as mentioned, only U1 Porunga can grant. If XXI could fulfill this wish with his own dragon, he would have already done so.


@And who exactly created the Universe 1 Dragonballs? Will he ever show up? It seems like he should be important.
Moori / Guru
We know Guru as the creator of Porunga's Dragon Balls. And Moori is his successor. It was also Moori who wanted to present U1 Porunga XXI's tournament winner wishes. 1 Replie(s)

Rule of three.
Perhaps, as with Piccolo, it had to happen twice before the nanobots in the Ultras' bloodstream and the armor itself developed a countermeasure. But I understand the skepticism. And considering how it's an open secret that Salagir doesn't really care about U19, it seems unlikely to me that U19 will proactively advance the plot.

But I'm sure Piccolo will save them and add them to his safety bubble, eventually. The question remains how many of the 7 Ultras survived the spikes (or other conjured objects).

Enough time has passed, and it now looks like U18 is searching for the others. I would like to take this opportunity to list some potential good candidates who, like Piccolo, could have a counterattack ready for the Life Skip and thus become part of the plot apart from Piccolo himself.

U1 - Robot Spectators
We already learned during IKL's introduction that there are at least a handful of robot/cyborg spectators in the stadium. A few civilians, as background characters for later.

U1 - South Kaioshin
He can use Life Skip and is therefore presumably immune if XXI uses it as well. South may be protecting the other Kaioshins. I wouldn't be surprised if every Kaioshin survived thanks to South.

U1 - Varga Izy
Perhaps Vargas' backup machine reappears in U0 after 10 minutes and thaws Izy, who is wearing a special science bracelet that makes her immune. Izy has developed a special scientific device to defeat ZenBuu and send him home. ... Yamcha “explained” to everyone what IKL did with the Life Skip. So it doesn't sound too far-fetched that Izy is making a scientific device to be prepared for another Life Skip scenario. I would just keep it to one Varga so the plot doesn't have too many characters.

U2 - Mary Sue
Well, she's just a Mary Sue. She can easily escape the Life Skip. Gag universe rules.

U7 - Gast Carcolh
Gast knows about the Mafuba, at least since Tien fought Zen Buu. So he might have a similar train of thought to Piccolo.

U12 - Android 16
C16 is immune as a robot, so he will protect Future Trunks.

U13 - Raditz
He wasn't recruited by XXI, and U13 Vegeta will probably kill him as soon as he finds him. Raditz is basically forced to join the good guys. There is a possibility that he received additional protection from evil spells by Old Kaioshin, meaning he could be immune.

U16 - Piccolo
Logically, just like U18 Piccolo, he will also have developed the counterattack.

U17 - Cell
He has Namekian cells and does the same thing as Piccolo, but instead makes his crown vibrate. He was also not recruited by XXI. He will definitely not join the good guys, but will possibly be considered his own fighting party in this arc.

U19 - The Ultras
The armor + nanobots were able to reverse Dabura's magic stone saliva. Therefore, they can probably do the same for Life Skip. Again, for plot reasons, half of them would probably be killed by the spikes or other objects. 1 Replie(s)

I like your comment. However, I must mention that Yamcha and the entire U9 are already back home. We mustn't forget that CH105 takes place before the final between Goku and XXI.


I have to admit, it's crazy how this even became a topic of discussion. Even fictional people don't want the remains of their deceased loved ones to rot away in a dangerous environment — a truly unbelievable concept, lol. 1 Replie(s)

I love how Vegeta recognizes that Gohan fights best when he's protecting someone, while he himself can perform at his best when he doesn't have to worry about others. It makes sense to leave Son Gohan in charge of all the capsules.

And a nice detail that we don't get to see the dead bodies anymore. Far too often, DBM is accused of unfounded bloody scenes with gore. Here, for once, they actively try to keep it to an absolute minimum (Trunks & Bra's death page).


I also watched DB before DBZ ;)



There is a possibility that they will have to leave U0 before they are able to revive their dead friends and family members. If their bodies are in U0 while they use the Dragon Balls in another universe, there is a chance that it will not work. They are playing it safe here, which is logical in their current situation.

It has often been suggested that the magic of Porunga/Shenron does not work across universes nor does it influence circumstances in another universe. (Page 733 & Page 1256) 1 Replie(s)

Fascinating. Would you be so kind as to list them for us, please?

So viele Leute kämpfen zur selben Zeit. Passiert selten in DB, und noch seltener erfolgreich in Szene gesetzt.

Die Kampfsequenz sieht echt toll aus.

Jetzt sehen wir Cashman zum ersten mal.

Die Seiten sind allerdings lustig strukturiert. Da ist so viel leere Fläche zwischen den Panels. Ich frage mich warum. Vielleicht der Stil vom Zeichner.

Das es überhaupt einen weiteren Weg gibt, wo man abbiegen kann, ist schon witzig.

Was wäre wenn U18 das Happy-End erhält ... U16 aber nicht?

Nicht mehr so selbstsicher, huh?

Ironically, this is indirectly addressed in DBM. On page 1718. Nappa was overwhelmed by Medamatcha's Medas technique at the beginning. In their second encounter, Nappa easily overcame this technique. On the one hand, because of the Zenkai Boost he had received previously. On the other hand, because this time Nappa is well aware of what to expect. The comic explicitly shows that Nappa is not touched by any of Medas' attacks in the second fight. This indirectly suggests that Nappa is acting more tactically, rather than being biologically resistant to the technique.
I agree with Matrixkid.


I have to disagree. Goten responds directly to Gohan's statement. He even interrupts him to show how serious he is about the matter. If Goten had omitted this "I know," he would have continued with his own comment from panel 3. However, it would have left a slightly bitter taste in our mouths to see the younger brother directly ignoring his older brother. It might fit the situation, and one could argue that it might even fit Goten's mature attitude in this situation. However, it would also chip away at the brotherly dynamic, which would be unnecessary. And it would potentially cause more damage than Goten's extra dialogue.
Which, in my opinion, isn't that much. This page is compact enough with information. It feels like they compressed 2 or 3 pages into one, and for what we get to see, it's very well done.


Well, considering everything he saw in the MR Arc, I think the reaction here is fine. After Nedwook and he defeated Kakarot, Goten lay half dead on the ground and gave the Heloîte instructions to attack Cell next. He was fully aware of the situation.

Haha, ich liebe es, wie Videl ihren Yamchu einfach als Depp beschimpft.

Die ersten beiden Panels zeigen, wie Krillins Hände bereits gelb leuchten. Ein schöner visueller Indikator dafür, wie lange Krillin seinen Angriff schon vorbreitet.

The glowing spheres around the people are ki balls that serve as a light source, like a torch.
We've actually seen this almost since the beginning of the chapter. On page 2568, page 2569, page 2570, page 2571, and page 2572.

It's true. Asura has Piccolo's left arm hanging down here, so it doesn't make sense in this particular panel. But it remains a ki ball that is supposed to generate light. These are not the souls of Bra and Trunks. It's simply one mistake by Asura on this page. 1 Replie(s)

Manchmal vergisst man, wie schnell Hildegarn eigentlich mit seinem Schweif ist. Es ist eine Art Ausgleich dafür, dass sein Körper im Allgemeinen so schwerfällig ist. Naja, Kaju eben.

Goku könnte sich jederzeit teleportieren und Coolers Männer selbst besiegen.

Die neue Red Ribbon Basis, schätze ich mal. Wenn Son Goku mit einer Wolke problemlos durchkommt, dann schafft es das Raumschiff auch, oder? Bestimmt gabs ein massives Update bei der RR.

Ich muss ausnahmsweise einmal Kritik üben. Wir wissen, wie den Z-Fighters allgemein sehr viele Ressourcen zur Verfügung stehen. Dazu gehören auch Senzu-Bohnen. Wenn man eine interessante Geschichte schreiben will, muss man dafür sorgen, dass die Bohnen nicht ständig verfügbar sind. Sonst geht die Spannung verloren. Man kann sie aber nicht ignorieren oder mit einer schwachen Begründung eliminieren. Das wirkt unplausibel und erzwungen. Man muss die Balance halten, und das ist dieser Seite leider nicht gelungen.

Ich mag wie dieser Typ sein Herz am rechten Fleck hat.

Oh damn, I completely overlooked that. And theoretically, you could count Kibitoshin, although Kibito died once, so probably just Shin himself.


It's Goten who will reach SSJ4. LoL


Oh, then I can definitely recommend DB AF by Young Jijii, where we get an adult Gotenks who is serious and actually defeats an arc villain.


I have a few theories about how others besides Piccolo might also have a certain countermeasure for the Life Skip. Without undermining Piccolo's efforts, of course.


Fair points. I have to admit, I was hoping for a bit stronger reaction from Gohan. Not stronger emotions like a tantrum, but that the situation between him, the dead Videl, and Pan would be addressed longer and in more detail. 2 Replie(s)

As some have mentioned. It has already been mentioned how everyone (except Piccolo) is surprised by the spikes. That means these objects only appeared after the Life Skip was activated.

Some people's assumptions sound plausible.
After XXI's allies started causing chaos, it's possible that Trunks threw himself in front of Bra to protect her. (Similar to what Gohan did for Videl on page 1367). Or more likely, after the Life Skip was activated, the spikes impaled Trunks' frozen body and then crushed his body onto Bra, impaling her with the same spikes.


Understandable reasoning. I would like to add that perhaps, due to the lack of pages per chapter, DBM didn't want to dwell too long on the reactions of deceased family members. Of course, this is important and should generally be done. However, if you have to cut corners, then the choice to capture Vegeta's immediate reaction is more understandable. After all, in the MR arc, we already saw Gohan's reaction to Videl's death. (Of course, not U18 Gohan, but the concept is the same). To repeat this so graphically here would be unnecessarily macabre.
So, it's possible that the chapter is packed with plot and unfortunately they had to save space somewhere. 1 Replie(s)

Man möchte sich gar nicht vorstellen, wie der genaue Ablauf ihres Todes war. Ob die Stacheln ihre Körper zusammengedrückt haben oder ob Trunks versucht hat, Bra zu schützen. Argh. Das ist wirklich sehr traurig.

Oh, that poor girl. How melancholy and sad. The brother tries to protect his sister. Someone almost guessed it right on the previous page.

Now Bra is at least a true member of the Z Fighters. Now only Pan is missing (as the only one who has never died). 2 Replie(s)

Anybody else getting "Dragon Ball: That Time I Got Reincarnated as Yamcha" vibes how Yamcha kicks Vegeta here? 2 Replie(s)

I agree with that line of thinking. It's absolutely true that this is very reminiscent of Kami's Lookout in the Buu Arc, when all the irrelevant characters were suddenly removed from the plot. And just because we didn't see any blood doesn't mean it wasn't horrific. Ceasing to exist by being turned into chocolate and eaten. That's quite gruesome, especially considering how the anime version shows them still trying to escape and being turned one by one.


If you really believe that, then you definitely weren't paying attention when you read DBM.


Nevertheless, it's similar. Gohan knows that the DBs must be somewhere, and if they don't all act carefully, they could make mistakes that risk reviving the others. Having a tantrum doesn't help anyone, because otherwise Gohan could accidentally knock Piccolo over with his energy or something, injure him, and cause the only one who is keeping them all alive right now to lose consciousness. Or Gohan could rush into the air in a fit of rage, through all the thorns, and unknowingly leave Piccolo's safety bubble and freeze again. Or he could alert XXI and his henchmen by drawing attention to himself. Etc.
Looking at Gohan's behavior throughout the DBM story, it's most in character for him to remain calm in this situation.

Was Vegeta gerade durchmacht, würde ich nicht einmal meinem Erzfeind wünschen. Der Horror, was mit seiner Tochter passieren könnte. Sie alle befinden sich seit mehreren Momenten in Piccolo's Sicherheitsblase und wie es dem Anschein hat, kann Vegeta Bra's Ki nicht spüren. Wir alle ahnen, was passiert sein könnte, aber im Gegensatz zu Videl wissen wir es nicht mit Sicherheit. Die Hoffnung, sie lebend zu finden, mit den verrücktesten Erklärungen, warum sie noch nicht gefunden wurde, schwindet, aber sie hält sich noch ein wenig. Man klammert sich an Strohhalme, bis man sich der unumstößlichen Wahrheit stellt.

Ich war nie ein Fan von Vegeta, aber als Future Trunks von Super Perfect Cell getötet wurde, habe ich zum ersten Mal mit ihm mitgefiebert. Das ist hier noch schlimmer, denn Bra ist keine Kämpferin, die sich freiwillig in den Kampf stürzt. Sie ist Vegetas kleine Prinzessin.

Personally, I think DBM portrays Vegeta and Gohan best out of all the characters. That's exactly how I would imagine them in a post-EoZ story. (I can't say the same about Goku, Goten, Trunks, etc., although they aren't portrayed poorly.)


They would have sensed Trunks' KI by now. There are only two possibilities. Trunks is unfortunately outside of Piccolo's safety bubble because he was standing furthest away from everyone else when XXI's wish came true. Or Trunks is actually dead.


So it's definitely a fact that Vegeta is very protective of Bra. There were several scenes in DBM that illustrate this perfectly.



You make it sound like Fridging is truly a bad trope. Goku's (2) biggest emotional outbursts in DB had to do with Krillin being Fridged, so to speak.

Edit:

Oh, I assume you're not a fan of what happened to Trinity, Martha Wayne or Shmi Skywalker. (just to name 3)

And it's pretty scandalous that someone who claims to be a writer doesn't recognize the difference between the stages of grief that both characters are currently displaying. And how we readers are confronted with the stage that best reflects the general status of the character and has been most prominently displayed.

Vegeta is impulsive, passionate, and tends to express his emotions through anger. His story is marked by frustration over defeats, pride, and the desire to prove himself. Anger is a natural reaction for him, as he often struggles with external and internal conflicts. A “fridging” event, such as the loss of Bra, would reinforce this trait, as she is one of the few characters who grounds him emotionally and humanizes him.

Gohan is a character who is often confronted with loss and responsibility. He has the ability to process grief and draw strength from it. His development from a childish fighter to an adult scholar shows his ability to accept difficult realities and move on.

I could write an entire essay on this topic. Your assertion that Gohan would not care about Videl's death is simply ridiculous.

I like the designs of the soldiers. Especially in the diverse army of frost demons, you can let your imagination run wild when it comes to creating new races. Even though these characters are pretty much fodder in DBZ standards, they would theoretically be almost invincible against 99% of all OG DB characters.

Wirklich wunderschön. Die Farben der Kamehameha und des Feueratems machen diese Seite zu einem echten Spektakel. Die S/W-Version war natürlich schon unglaublich, aber in Farbe, mit all den Schattierungen und Effekten ... Wie die Angriffe selbst ihre eigenen Lichtquellen sind ... Es ist eine wahre Freude, dies mitzuerleben.

Ich kenne nicht alle Feen hier. Ich frage mich, zu welcher Geschichte jede einzelne gehört. 1 Replie(s)

Just like in The Simpsons Movie, when the dome shattered into thousands of pieces and fell on the city... It's a miracle that no one was hurt.
It's a typical trope (No Endor Holocaust) that hardly anyone gets hurt or even dies in scenes like this.


I agree with the others. Gohan is behaving here as I think one would expect. He is holding back his emotions in front of his daughter. We don't know exactly how he reacted and grieved when he found her body. He was composed enough to prevent his daughter from seeing her mutilated body. In panel 4, we even see a sweat drop on Gohan's forehead, which indicates that he is nervous about breaking the news to his daughter.

I think it was a wise decision not to show us, the readers, or Pan what Videl looked like when she died. The image must be graphic, and I suspect DBM doesn't want to overdo it with the gore.
Some people in the community generally think that gore has no place in DB. Videl already had her sad death scene with Majin Cell, where we could see her body on screen.
However, it's true that too much exposure to gore scenes desensitizes you to them. Personally, I don't need to see a spike piercing her body. This is one of those cases where “tell, don't show” is a preferable alternative.





Edit:

There was nothing to rekindle. Videl never lost her fighting spirit. That's a myth from Modern DB. EoZ Videl and, continuing from that, her DBM version never lost interest in martial arts, not even her GT version.

It's now exactly three times.
In DBZ, Videl dies when Super Buu turns everyone at the Lookout into chocolate and eats them.
In DBM, U18 Videl dies at the hands of Majin Cell during the MR arc. And now by a spike created because of XXI. 1 Replie(s)

Videl! No!
We lost U9 Videl, now U18 Videl. I pray that U16 Videl is safe.

Gut beobachtet. Ich schätze mal, das ist nur ein kleiner Zeichenfehler, der sich eingeschlichen hat. Auf Page 109 sieht man, dass die Potara zerbrochen ist, auf Page 108 jedoch nicht. Das ist Asura mit Vegetto und den Kaioshin in DBM ziemlich oft passiert.

Der Oberkörper ist jetzt frei. Oh, das heißt, jetzt wirds ernst.

It's a picture of Cashman.

The latter. Piccolo already mentioned it on the previous page. There was an explosion. And that obviously happened after XXI made his wish.


What we see here is what happened after XXI made his wish. In addition, someone, either XXI himself or South Kaioshin, activated Life Skip. The explosion that Piccolo mentioned on the previous page must have something to do with XXI's wish, because when everyone else was frozen when IKL used Life-Skip, or when XXI fought Goku in the final battle, there were no explosions with giant spikes or anything like that.

Gut, von Piccolo werden die Namen ausgerufen, sonst wäre es schwierig, zu unterscheiden, wer gerade gesprochen hat. Es ist wirklich herzzerreißend, wie Gohan hier spricht. Man merkt sofort, dass hier etwas mit Videl passiert ist.

Du hast Recht. Das Setting passt jetzt ideal. Ich glaube auch, die Vision mit Piccolo wird bald eintreten.

Das letzte Panel ist abermals hervorragend koloriert. Hut ab!

@Dojos with entrance exams.

Since it has been mentioned several times (through the last couple pages), I would like to express my opinion on this.

An entrance exam in which you have to defeat active members in a fight is a common and credible motif in fictional stories, especially in martial arts media. It fits well with dojos that are portrayed as competitive, elitist, or strictly traditional, as in Cobra Kai or similar settings. You could use such a scenario to show your character's challenges, advance their development, or question the values of the dojo (e.g., strength, honor, or ruthlessness). Examples such as Naruto, Dragon Ball or Kung Fu Panda show how such tests can be used effectively in a narrative. If we remain strictly on the topic of dojos, there are a handful of competition-oriented or elite dojos in fiction, such as in Karate Kid or Ranma ½, etc.

Er sollte lieber eine Pause einlegen, bevor er sich einem weiteren Gegner stellt.

Cooler und sein Team einzubeziehen, könnte Sinn machen. Wenn man Details und Handlungsstränge an den richtigen Stellen überarbeitet, könnte Coola sehr gut zum Kanon passen. Diese Idee gefällt mir sehr gut. Allerdings hat DBM Coola auch integriert, indem es nur ein paar Details geändert hat. Ich bin also sehr gespannt, wie sich das entwickeln wird.

That must be the second cousin of Gorkor the Great. xD

How convenient that Piccolo says the names, otherwise we really wouldn't know who was unfrozen, except for Goku.

It seems like you're overlooking one detail. When Piccolo activates his counterattack before the Life Skip technique is performed, he creates a shield around his antennas, so to speak, with a radius large enough to include his brain.

Let's break it down into a simple example. Person 1 fires a Kamehameha at person 2. If the second person only activates the shield when the ki beam hits them, it doesn't make sense, of course, because they will already be pulverized. But if the second person activates the shield before the Kamehameha is fired, then the shield protects them from the ki attack.

Think of it this way. We literally see a round sphere, a kind of bubble, around Piccolo, as is often the case with protective shields. 2 Replie(s)

Die Szene hier sieht gut aus. Der Übergang zwischen Rückblende und Gegenwart ist geschickt gemacht. Ich frage mich, ob wir in diesem Kapitel noch öfter auf Kid Vegeta zurückkommen werden. Allerdings scheint es sich hierbei nicht nur um ein mentales Training zu handeln, sondern jemand hat tatsächlich einen Feuerball auf Vegeta geworfen.

Die Kampfchoreografie ist hier ziemlich cool. Der Luftkampf ist recht beeindruckend. Allerdings ist das Powerscaling, ehrlich gesagt, schwer nachvollziehbar. 1 Replie(s)

Plot twist.
The Genkidama is now big enough that it resembles the Powerball technique to a certain extent, allowing Nasu to transform into an Oozaru.

It's hard to believe that it's already been 5 years since FunsexyDB announced this fan comic. I wonder if there have been any changes to the original rough draft/sketches/initial release/etc.

Nevertheless, I am very excited to read another DB fan comic here. This website is slowly but surely earning a reputation as a beacon for passionate DB fan comic creators.

I simply believe that the “vibration of the antennas” does not seem any stranger than what we have seen in the series so far. Piccolo used the Mafuba Gaeshi against Kami without any prior hints or foreshadowing. He (probably) used Piccolo Daimao's memories to execute the counterattack. Here in DBM, Piccolo has literally seen the technique of IKL in action twice. Some users have even complained that if Piccolo recognized a pattern, why didn't Goku already develop a counter for it. And now we're here, where Piccolo has actually worked out something that helps on the third use of Life Skip. Apparently, it's impossible to find a balance; either Z Fighters should be able to counter everything immediately, or not at all.

When it comes to why the antenna specifically doesn't make sense, I have to disagree. We've already seen Piccolo use his Antenna Beam against Goku in the Budokai final. So using the antennae in “combat” is by no means unprecedented. As mentioned by others, antennae are usually the most sensitive parts of the body in the animal kingdom, serving to perceive the environment. Namekians are partly based on snails, which use antennae for such purposes. It makes sense to depict such a technique in this way.

I have to say, if Piccolo had just done what Gohan did on page 1450 / page 1451, and simply countered the change in the nature of the particles (IKL) respectively the abnormal vibrations (Babidi) by synchronizing himself correctly with them, I would find that incredibly uninspiring. Now that I know there is the variant with the Namekian antennae.

It also gives the Namekian an advantage that not everyone can replicate. Gohan and co. can't counteract it with the right synchronization, as with Babidi. It's an exclusive thing, which makes it all the more exciting.

Junge, der kassiert eine Menge Schläge.

Oh nein, Vegeta hat einen Heiligenschein. Da diese in in der Originalserie Kanon sind, muss er in dieser einen Szene tot sein, Hahaha.

Echt genial gut kolorierte Seite. Ich mag jedes Detail, besonder Hildegarn. Eine Sache fand ich damals schon interessant. Tapion hat weiterhin die schützende Aura von Hildegarn, obwohl das Riesenmonster seinen Körper verlassen hat. Vielleicht entweicht die Aura erst, wenn Hildegarn komplett aus Tapion raus ist, denn in der S/W Version sehen wir später, wie Tapion schutzlos ist, während Krillin mit Hildegarn kämpft.

@Spikes
I see it the same way as most people. It's actually very reminiscent of the needle pile aka spiked forest from hell in the battle against Janemba in the Fusion Reborn movie. And considering that U5 Janemba is part of XXI's summoning repertoire, it's not far-fetched to say that, in a certain way, the hell of another universe has collided with U0 here.

You're right. Vegetto began to die when the Life Skip was reversed, and from then on, all the blood began to flow out of Vegetto. This means that if Piccolo sees someone who is injured outside of his bubble, he should not approach them unless a healer is with him, otherwise there is a risk that the person will die from their injuries as soon as the Life Skip effect is reversed.


The Freeze Thing was activated after XXI made his wish. Everything since page 2566 is a continuation of page 2520. We don't know what happened in the meantime. And I'm afraid there may be enough plot to fill chapters.


I agree. Namekian antennas never really served any purpose in the story except to create an interesting design. Only in the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament did Piccolo use an Antenna Beam, and that was it. So I'm more than happy with the new technique. It also fits very nicely into the picture. For a change, the antennae serve a purpose, Piccolo is given an important role and is not just used as a tailor, Piccolo also counts as one of the strategically acting characters, and the statement about the counters is also completely legitimate. I think Piccolo fans have something to be happy about.


At the time, I always struggled to find the right words to describe the circumstances surrounding Ki. Your comment summarizes it all very well.

Wir können deutlich die schützende Blase um Piccolos Antennen sehen, die ihn am Leben hält. Seine Beine scheinen vollständig gelähmt oder eingefroren zu sein. Piccolo ist natürlich die Ruhe selbst, aber er konnte sich zu Beginn tatsächlich kaum bewegen. Das muss für die meisten Menschen eine schreckliche Erfahrung sein. Es ist fast so, als wäre man halb versteinert wie Babidi, als er auf Page 1838 von Dabura angespuckt wurde.

Allgemein ist das eine super Seite. So viele Informationen und so viel Raum für Spekulationen. Diese Stacheln erinnern einen schon etwas an den Nadelhaufen in der Hölle, im Fusion Reborn Film. Als Goku und Vegeta gegen Janemba kämpften.

I like it when a simple little Ki ball in your hand serves as a kind of torch, aka light source. It happens so rarely because Saiyans are their own light source as SSJs, lol.

Either those are spikes or thorns. A large pile of needles or a plant. I'm very curious to see where this is all going.

Piccolo confirms once again how many people view KI. A kind of protective cloak over your body that protects you from injuries and other external conditions. The reason why many people don't lose their clothes when they are injured by Ki attacks is because their own Ki acts as a kind of mantle that also protects their clothes (for the most part). The stronger you are, the greater the protection. And without it, you are as defenseless as Mr. Satan when you are struck by spikes or thorns, for example.


It makes just as much sense as Goku being able to read Krillin's mind immediately after arriving on Namek. 3 Replie(s)

Es hätte mir gereicht, wenn wir im letzten Hauptkapitel ein Panel gesehen hätten, in dem U18 reagiert, als die Verbündeten von XXI angreifen. Und dort sehen wir besorgte Gesichter und einige, die sich wie Vegetto und Gast bereit machen, in Aktion zu treten. Und dann, Piccolo nimmt lässig seinen Turban ab.

Zu diesem Zeitpunkt hätte dies als Hinweis dienen können, dass er seine Antennen für den Gegenangriff vorbereitet. Aber zu diesem Zeitpunkt hätten wir einfach gedacht, Piccolo würde sich auf den Kampf einstellen. Das hätte mir gefallen.

It's incredibly rude to say something like that about the artist's work.

That's obviously a fake-out. Goten-kun wouldn't kill Gohan so abruptly after that long story so far. The real question is what the consequences will be.

Irgendwie ergibt Black keinen Sinn hier. Ich hoffe sehr, es ist Teil des Skripts, ihn hier etwas dümmlich wirken zu lassen.

Sieht aus wie ein Feuerball.

Ich war schon immer ein großer Fan von Tapion. Das hier ist alles großartig. Und ihn in Farbe zu sehen, macht mich wirklich glücklich. Vielen Dank an das Kolorierungsteam.

Oh Gott, mir ist gerade erst aufgefallen, dass der Felsen Augen hat. Lol.

So it's not a time stop, but it instead halts life.
Hmm, so it's a Life-Skip. ;)

So it is a direct reference and continuation of what Piccolo already analyzed on page 2512. In the meantime, he has devised and initiated a counter.

I absolutely love how Piccolo's lower body continues to shimmer in blue, suggesting that the radius of his counterattack is extremely small. So small, in fact, that (at the beginning) it only affected part of his body. which must be extremely frightening to see half of your body frozen.

It should be noted that the turban would actively prevent Piccolo from vibrating his antennas. It makes sense in terms of the plot why Piccolo is not wearing the turban at the moment. 2 Replie(s)

So that's definitely a Namekian's antenna. And from the context of the text box, it can't possibly be Gast or Piccolo Daimao. There's talk of a Counter, so it's certainly the Mafuba Gaeshi, which only Piccolo Junior used. The question is whether it's U18 or U16 Piccolo. Or maybe both at the same time. We see the blue shimmer, which so far indicates what has been frozen by the time-stop technique. But we also see a white area. This means that we are about to find out who found a counterattack for IKL's technique and how. 1 Replie(s)

Sieht aus als hätte Piccolo einen Konter für I'K'L's Technik gefunden. So wie der Text beschrieben wird, klingt das zumindest so.

Cooles Schwert. Der Griff sieht gut aus. Und das ganze mit den dunklen Flammen, und der Angriff. Echt beeindruckend.

Das erinnert mich jetzt an U17 Cell, der Krillin ins All mitgezerrt hat, damit er dort im Vakuum stirbt.

Diese Seite hat echt viel Power. Die Zeichnungen, das Paneling, der Text. Beeindruckend.

Yamoshi, you're not going to stop there, right? What are you waiting for?
Do it
Just do it

Er scheint hartnäckig zu sein. Interessant. Er ist entschlossen, in ein Kampfsport-Dojo oder etwas Ähnliches aufgenommen zu werden.

So, es ist Sayazur-Canon, dass Xenomorphs und Frostdämoen quasi miteinander verwandt sind. Hahah.

Es ist wirklich erfrischend, zur Abwechslung einmal etwas anderes als Saiyajins, Namekianer oder Frostdämonen im Rampenlicht zu sehen. Ein Turnierkampf zwischen einem Menschen mit Kaioken und einem relativ unbekannten Außerirdischen (Konatsianer) mit der schützenden Aura eines Kaju. Es ist schade, dass wir nicht mehr von solchen Dingen zu sehen bekommen. Deshalb genieße ich diese seltenen Szenen so sehr.