That is unsatisfying. (I never said, I liked seeing Goku lose)

However, the moment Vegetto lost to XXI, I realized this wasn't a typical Tenkaichi Budokai. And when #18 lost to XXI, my opinion solidified. By the time even ZenBuu was defeated by XXI with just one attack, I was absolutely certain this tournament would end in exactly the same way.



It's ironic that the biggest coward can easily clear all tournament opponents with the help of magic and virtual cheat buffs. XXI is the antithesis of the traditional martial arts tournament. He avoids fighting. I've never seen anything like it in DB.

Goku vs Vegeta is such an incredible contrast to Goku vs XXI.


It kind of feels like Dragonball. Established strong characters lose one after the other to the main antagonist. He seems unstoppable at the moment and the Z-Fighters or Mutliverse-Fighters have to come up with something to finally defeat him in the final showdown. But I have a sneaky feeling that a new transformation won't be the solution this time.


That's right. Don't worry guys, this problem will be fixed soon. It's not part of the plot, like Bardock's Vision or something.

@Kururun, goochskun
Please don't put words in my mouth. I did not claim that the result was good. I merely pointed out the facts. XXI won his battles with the most OHK of all tournament participants. The way DBM conceptualizes its story, it was expected to happen again. I merely mentioned checkov's guns, that is not insulting.


I don't know what to tell you except that DBM is the wrong place for you if you were expecting something like this. 1 Replie(s)

Exactly the same approach when he asked his dragon about #18's weaknesses (Page 993). And how did that end? By XXI defeating her with an OHK (Page 1125). So the statements between XXI and his dragon on page 2462, which amount to the same thing, can be interpreted to mean that XXI discovered a safe OHK for Goku at that moment. Attentive readers would definitely recognize this in future re-reads.

Quick reminder:
XXI vs Vegetto: 2 pages
XXI vs #18: 3 pages
XXI vs Zen Buu: 5 pages

As I said before. If XXI has an OHK, then he uses it. And as we know, as quickly and effectively as possible. 1 Replie(s)

Please stop falling for the sunk cost fallacy. I can't believe people are still doing this after 2500+ pages.

XXI beat Vegetto with an OHK. XXI beat #18 with an OHK. XXI defeated Zen Buu with an OHK. And now Goku too. That was totally expected. Especially if you read carefully. Retroactively, page 2462 indirectly says that XXI has already won. Because he has discovered an OHK that he can use on Goku, and that's what happened in the end. (Gast is the exception, and if XXI was aware of IKL's time stop ability before his semifinal fight would have started, then XXI definitely would have used that on Gast as well.)

In the end, unfortunately, Goku wasn't wearing any of those.
But on the contrary, for once, the same rules are applied to him as to everyone else. This comic has shown time and time again that the heroes, the DBZ fighters in general, even Goku himself, do not get special treatment as was the case in DB/Z. Our heroes can be killed by a Kienzan just as easily as a villain, for example. And after 2500+ pages, that's still an integral part of DBM's take on DB. If you don't see it, then I have to wonder if you don't remember a completely different comic and you just have an ideal wish list that unfortunately doesn't come true.

And don't let the covers fool you anymore. Asura only draws in the covers that he thinks are amusing or epic. That doesn't necessarily mean it's part of the chapter like for example One Piece covers. Do you remember the cover of chapter 86? And the actual content of the chapter? 5 Replie(s)

Dieses Ende war absolut zu erwarten. Man kann enttäuscht sein, aber definitiv nicht überrascht. XXI hat alle seine Kämpfe so gewonnen, sobald er zusätzlich zu den Tipps seines Drachens auch noch einen Zaubertrick in petto hatte. Page 2462 war leider schon indirekt ein Hinweis darauf, dass XXI gewinnen wird.

Rule #1 is still in effect.

People who know better because they've been in the comment sections for years and should logically know the rules don't get the benefit of the doubt.

OK. Let's calm down for now, please.

Ok, some people here get so worked up that it soon gets completely out of hand.

@CompactCoven, Kururun, TheSloppaSituation, JustSaiyan, Gast Greatness, Your nickel, A Saiyan

Try again but this time without getting emotional. 5 Replie(s)

Do you remember when Taopaipai defeated Goku and when Piccolo Daimao defeated Goku? Was the story (arc) over immediately after that? Or did Goku have his rematch?

To me it's absolutely obvious that Goku will later win against XXI when the actual Chaos / Endgame arc begins.

The tournament, believe it or not, was never really the focus. It was about the what-if fights. You can have those outside of the tournament. This falsely believed narrative that the tournament itself should be the big epic and once it's over it should be over immediately, that's why so many are disappointed.


I respect your opinion. However, I have to ask. What would you do? What should Goku have done? Destroy the old wizard's body? Leave the arena to force XXI to follow him? I'm a bit confused, I'm pretty sure it's a familiar trope that the protagonist/hero loses in the arc antagonist's first fight before later emerging triumphant. 7 Replie(s)

4 people confirm on the same page that it is IKL's ability. I really hope that's enough so that some readers don't claim otherwise. The previous page already hinted at it with the certain way Goku's wound looks.

I blame Uuv.
On page 2383, the Varga gave XXI the idea to acquire the time-stopping ability in the first place. Sure, the out-of-universe explanation, is so you have a Checkov's Gun to look back on. Salagir would have bent it in whatever way to give XXI the idea. However, the in-universe explanation is that it's Uuv's fault. lol
On page 2462, XXI then asked his dragon for this very ability, which we weren't supposed to know at that point.

1 Replie(s)

@PrimeFighter
Your first comment was not deleted on this page. You have just violated rule #1 with your accusation. Which is why your second comment was deleted.


Do you mean Goku in panel 3? It must just be the perspective, which is why you can't see all the fingers.


I have to admit, it's incredibly fascinating that DBM were able to keep this up until the finale. The story is designed to defeat XXI not in the tournament, but afterwards.
The fact that XXI neither behaves as a true villain nor was ever seen as anything more than sketchy by the protagonists allowed the plot to be designed in such a way that any escalation with XXI for better or worse will take place after the tournament. Only in a few places, such as the fight against Gast, do we get to see fragments of his true intentions.


Yes, let's hope so. I have to mention it myselt, that you sometimes state something as a fact in your theories that is not true. You regularly cross the fine line between “just putting forward a theory that would be interesting” and “clearly spreading misinformation”. I would ask you not to spread misinformation in future.


I'm sorry that you went into the fight with different expectations. However, did you really expect something climactic with XXI? That's one of the consistent character portrayals about XXI. That he wants to win his fights as quickly and effectively as possible. No distractions, just straight to the point.

You unfortunately came in with the expectations that the finale with XXI and Goku should be comparable to XXI's semi-final fight with Gast. But XXI was never intending to have a spectacular fight. It was only because he couldn't exploit any obvious weaknesses in the Namekian to take Gast by surprise like he could with Vegetto, or #18 or Zenbuu. When XXI came up with an idea on how to easily defeat Goku, it's pretty logical that it would happen the same way as before. As quickly and effectively as possible.

You just have to accept that DBM has basically applied the My Hero Academia principle here. The finale is not the most important or even the most spectacular fight. And don't worry, we will certainly find out soon enough how XXI and his allies will act later on. If the Bardock visions all happen at some point, then the effects of the recruitment from the flashback chapter will happen too.

And don't forget. The old wizard is not XXI, but merely a shell for the smoke monster, which is actually XXI. ZenBuu immediately destroyed the old wizard's body and XXI still found a way to seal Buu. What should Goku have done? It's perfectly logical (by Dragonball standards) that Goku would try to tempt XXI into dropping information that could help him out. It's not atypical for Goku. Elder Kaioshin has issued a warning about XXI. Still, Goku would give anyone the benefit of the doubt. The way Goku acted in the fights with Vegeta, Freeza, Cell or Buu, this is absolutely fine.

XXI ultimately gave Goku a false sense of security by fooling everyone into thinking he had no new tricks up his sleeve. That's a good tactic.


That is not correct. We saw #16 again at the awards ceremony, on page 2458, and he's fine. 2 Replie(s)

XXI macht das, was XXI immer macht. Einen Turnierkampf so schnell und effektiv wie möglich zu beenden.

Wir DB-Fans gehen meist davon aus, dass der letzte oder finale Kampf eines Turniers immer der spektakulärste Kampf sein muss. Aber unsere Erwartungen wurden untergraben.

Der Halbfinalkampf zwischen Gast und XXI hat uns fast glauben lassen, wir könnten von XXI mehr als ein OHK erwarten.

I knew it, Heartvirus! .... well, explosive heart virus 1 Replie(s)

Also der Tritt in Panel 3 sieht einfach unglaublich befriedigend aus. Die Kampfchoreographie ist bis jetzt wirklich gut.

Dieser Gag hat tatsächlich einen bleibenden Eindruck hinterlassen. Selbst nach einem Jahrzehnt erinnern sich die Leute noch an diesen 2- Seiten langen „Kampf“. Genial. Zusätzlich mit einer Mischung aus Nappas Kommentaren aus DBZ und dem unvermeidlichen Einfluss von TFS Nappa. Man kann hier gewissermaßen den Ursprung von Comic-Relief DBM Nappa beobachten.

Was die Farben angeht. Ich finde, Freezers rote Lippen sehen ein wenig seltsam aus. Außer im letzten Panel, wo es wieder gut aussieht.

Sehr spannend was alles passieren könnte. Es gibt eine Vielzahl von Taktiken, die XXI anwenden könnte.

— Weitere Telportationen in andere uns noch nicht bekannte Dimensionen oder ähnlich wie Babidi wirklich extrem weit weg.
— Gravitationsmanipulation (Statt einfache G, oder 10G, wie wäre es mit 1.000.000x fache der Erdgravitation) vergleichbar mit Eleim vs C16.
— Rauchwolkengefängnis wie bei Gast, aber mit mehr Details zu XXI's Wesen.
— Transformation in etwas außer dem Rauchmonster.
— Beschwören von Figuren, die Goku emotional treffen, nicht im Bezug auf Kampfkraft.
— XXI's Drache taucht höchstpersönlich auf und lenkt alle ab, Goku mit einbezogen, damit XXI den eintscheidenen Schlag ausführen kann.

Aber mein Favorit bisher war schon immer der Gedanke mit dem Herzvirus. Was wäre wenn XXI es schafft Goku mit einer neuen Version des Herzvirus anzustecken, die ihn damals beinahe getötet hat? Schon klar, der Kampf Goku vs C19 ist kein Highlight in Dragonball, aber entscheidend, wenn man bedenkt, wie Goku quasi machtlos gegen den Cyborg am Ende war. Und das lediglich durch eine Krankheit. Ein externer Einfluss, der Goku's Kampfsportgenialität nicht einmal untergräbt.

I love the pure emotion on Goku's face in panel 2, just brilliant.

Still a big fan of the theory that XXI somehow manages to give Goku the heart virus again. That's one thing about DB that was always so intriguingly tragic. The greatest hero and fighter who ultimately fell due to illness, not in battle. Well, in the Future Timeline at least.

Just by the way. I'm aware that I'm the only one who pays attention to such minor things.
However, I find it very amusing how Sei sighs out loud here. It reminds me of how she's a Vegeta fangirl. Because she was super hyped in the Goku vs Vegeta semifinal fight. Sure it was an out-of-universe way of reflecting the reader, but in-universe it means she's very committed to at least one of them. And considering that this isn't the first time she's criticized Goku's rather unspectacular tournament fights here on today's page, it clearly implies that Sei was excited about Vegeta back on page 2163, not Goku.


@Mary Bra
We would very much appreciate it if you would refrain from profane language in the future.

This may be boring and strange for the viewer, but it's a pretty clever tactic. One that XXI should use if he didn't have other aces up his sleeve.


I absolutely agree with you. I think Son Goten is superbly well portrayed in DBM. Many people criticize why he hasn't had SSJ2 for a long time and has been training non-stop just like Goku. But it's precisely Goten's (and Trunks') lack of ambition that makes him so fascinating. It's only during the DBM tournament that Goten realizes he can't rest on his laurels (fusion + SSJ3) and put all the safety of Earth on the shoulders of Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. He realized a scenario may happen where he is left alone to fight. Taking his lessons from these events is much more exciting than if he was already the top dog at the beginning and a Goku clone. DBM Goten actually has character, well, some taken from DBGT, but quite legitimate to differentiate him specifically with Goku, and Gohan. I'm really happy about the character portrayal of some characters and Son Goten is definitely one of them.

War ja so klar, dass Goku auf diesen Trick nicht reinfällt. Allerdings werden sowohl Sei's als auch Goku's Kommentar ... unterbrochen. Es kann sein XXI heckt gerade im Moment etwas aus.

Das sind alles wirklich gute Charaktereigenschaften für alle drei. Sehr originalgetreu wie sie tatsächlich agieren würden in so einer Situation. Ich finde, Yamchu, Bulma und Chichi werden hier hervorragend dargestellt.

Die Sache mit Chilled wurde irgendwie am Ende so schnell gelöst. Yamoshi ließ den König allein, damit er den anderen helfen konnte. Allerdings hat er nur Chilleds Aussage mitbekommen und den Dragonball erhalten. Das war's. Jetzt scheint er zum König zurück zu eilen.
Es scheint so, als wollte man den König schwer verletzt darstellen, ohne dass Yamoshi sich zuerst einmischt.

Die Actionszenen in diesem Manga sind wirklich sehr gut.

Das ist eine kleine Gruppe von Zuschauern in Panel 1. Solche Szenen waren bestimmt ein wenig aufwendig zu kolorieren.

Ich mochte diese Seite schon damals. Sie zeigt indirekt, wie U4 Buu tatsächlich talentierte und besondere Menschen absorbiert hat. Etwas, das man später in einem Spezialkapitel über Universum 4 nicht wirklich braucht, durch solche Seiten wie diese im Hauptcomic.

Eine neue alte Serie, die man auf die To-Do-Liste setzen kann.

Leider verbringt man zu viel Zeit in der englischen Sektion. Gilt für mich jedenfalls.


Ich war schon immer ein großer Fan der Theorie, wonach XXI, wenn er im Turnier auf Goku trifft, von seinem Drachen die Information/Fähigkeit erhält, Goku den Herzvirus wieder durchleben zu lassen. Vergleichbar mit dem Kampf gegen Cyborg 19 damals. Goku wäre also im Finale in einem Nachteil, aber mit einem ähnlichen Handicap hatte Goku bereits im Turnierkampf gegen Freezer zu kämpfen. Dort ist er im mentalen Kampf sehr schnell gealtert.

I really hope Goku says something like Nappa on page 1718 if/when he comes back in time.

There could be many reasons for this. One is that XXI wants to preserve the mystery surrounding his person for as long as possible. To give his potential tournament opponents the impression that he is an opponent to be taken seriously. The repeated use of a special tactic or technique can shatter the illusion that you always have the right tool for the right opponent.

As also mentioned. There would be a risk that #18, like Goku, would try to escape the other dimension on time. Then there's the theory that XXI has a weakness against Androids, as he may not be able to locate them properly due to the lack of Ki signatures. XXI's dragon has also presented him with the opportunity to easily vanquish his opponent. And apparently the remote control is the easiest way from the dragon's point of view (page 993).

And then, of course, the out-of-universe explanation that Salagir visibly avoids repeating stuff unless it's supposed to be part of the plot, of all things.


Fair point. However, it must be mentioned that something like this would be much more broken than what we have now. And at the moment it only mirrors the HTC in Kami's Lookout. It sounds poetic that in the course of DB/Z (DBS excluded) no other dimension than the one from the Lookout was ever introduced. Which makes it seem like there is only this one. Which, conversely, would make sense that there is also only one dimension in the opposite direction of time flow. If we assume that there are only these accessible time dimensions.


Give Goku a false sense of security by pretending to be out of 'new' tricks. That's a good tactic, tbh.

Just as many had speculated for years. If Goku were to actually face XXI in the finals, XXI could actually use the same tactics he used on Vegetto, which means he would just use the time dilation trick on Goku. The catch is, unlike Vegetto, Goku now knows this tactic and will surely escape soon enough. This is a tremendously important detail whether an opponent knows what you can do or not.

Son Goten throws an incredibly good argument here. If XXI is resorting to old tactics here, it may be that he's either out of aces up his sleeve, or this specifically is part of his plan to win the fight. 2 Replie(s)

You have made a great compilation out of it. Kudos to you.


I'll have to save the panel. Perfect for future memes.

Als ich die S/W-Seite vor etwa 13 Jahren las, verwirrte mich das Gespräch der Frostdämonen etwas. Mir war nicht klar, dass es eine Anspielung auf den Namen der Cantina-Band in Star Wars war. Genial.

I can't help but think of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Babel Fish.

Die Sache mit Gero und den Cyborgs ist interessant. Wie wurde das hier in dieser Geschichte gelöst? Ich würde vermuten, dass es den Erzählfluss ein wenig stören würde, wenn eine dritte Partei mit dem Red Ribbon ins Spiel käme. Möglich wäre es, aber ich denke, der Fokus liegt in dieser Arc im Konflikt zwischen Menschen & Saiyajins.

Irgendwie fängt Chilled an, mir ans Herz zu wachsen. Ich mochte sein allgemeines Design aus dem Bardock-Special anfangs nicht besonders, und das hat sehr lange angehalten. Vor allem, weil ich DBMs Version von Chilled in seiner zweiten Form (King Cold Aussehen) so sehr mag. In meinem neuen Headcanon ist es jetzt einfach Chilled's erste Form (Freezer's erster Auftritt in Dragonball), sogar für DBM, lol.

Ich habe oft darüber spekuliert, ob Tapions Kopfschmuck gold- oder bronzefarben ist. Überraschenderweise war es im Film bis zum Schluss nie klar. Das lag wahrscheinlich an den vielen Schatten und Lichtquellen, die einen Kontrast erzeugten. Es freut mich zu sehen, dass es in DBM eindeutig goldfarben ist.

Ah, I See You're a Man of Culture as Well....

Damit habe ich kein Problem. Es wird immer eine Vielzahl von Meinungen geben. Wahrscheinlich gehöre ich diesmal zur Minderheit. Wie ich schon sagte, muss ich mich einfach an die Farben gewöhnen.

Oh nice. I like the Pokemon reference here, whether intentional or not. Just like Team Rocket at the end of every failed attempt to catch Pikachu, haha. 1 Replie(s)

That's absolutely correct, and we've seen XXI then act like an edgy teenager as a result, cursing around for a several pages. He's acknowledged his mistake and is trying his patience again. It's obviously all just a game of patience for XXI, with him only having one slip-up in the entire course of the comic, which he possibly regrets if you interpret page 2449 that way. I'm really curious to see if XXI will ever have a freakout like that again. Probably, but not necessarily the case.


We may have completely different views. And that's fine. We can still continue the discussion. I didn't mean to be offensive, if that's how you took it.


You can see it on the cover of this chapter (page 2506). Goku's hair strands are positioned slightly differently than in Base Form. And the eyes have the iconic SSJ teal colors.


The last time we saw Uub, he was still trapped in the pocket dimension created/opened by ZenBuu. There he runs away from Fake-Anju or rather trains with her to become stronger and improve his magic (Page 2161). We can strongly assume that he is still there.


You claim it only lasted a few seconds in the Goku vs Vegeta tournament fight. But the storyboard didn't mention in any way exactly how long Goku and Vegeta stood still in the ring before they started fighting. We can assume that it took about the same amount of time in both cases. Only here, for the first time, we learn exactly how long in particular.


Simple explanation. If Salagir had made this form accessible in an instant, it would be incredibly boring, imo. This way, it can create more tension. Same principle why (DBM's version of) SSJ3 is much more interesting than SSJ2.


Purely hypotethically speaking, Zarbon could use NSSJ. All his power in his ugly transformation, but in his base form so to speak.

I'd argue any character could achieve this kind of state, which is similar to Gohan's Mystic in some aspects. Even if not every character theoretically has a transformation, every character would have the potential to use a power level enhancing technique, like Kaioken. So the highest possible Kaioken someone can use would be the power level in NSSJ.

That's just my theory though. Because we know so little about Goku's and Vegeta's form that most of it is either speculation, word-of-god comments from Salagir/Asura, and the description on page 2166. 1 Replie(s)

Ein wirklich interessanter Gedanke. Ich muss mich jedoch fragen. Wenn XXI nicht von I'K'Ls Zeitstopp-Fähigkeit beeinflusst wurde, wie hätte I'K'L dann XXI besiegen können? Wir dürfen nicht vergessen. Schließlich war XXI in seiner wahren Form in der Lage, einen kleinen ZenBuu-Kopf auszuschalten und einen erschöpften Gast im Turnierkampf abzuwehren.

Eigentlich könnten alle 3 Möglichkeiten zum Chaos führen (Aus Nea's Umfrage).

Goku gewinnt:
Wie in der Rückblende gezeigt, bereiten sich XXIs Verbündete auf die Ablenkung vor, sobald der Drache für Goku beschworen wird. XXI könnte unterdessen versuchen, so unauffällig wie möglich zu wirken und den Eindruck zu erwecken, dass er keinen Groll hegt, verloren zu haben.

XXI gewinnt:
Porunga wird beschworen und der erste Wunsch wird für U19 ausgesprochen. Als es dann zum eigentlichen Wunsch kommt, wird dieser so formuliert, dass niemand merkt, dass etwas nicht stimmt. Oder das Blatt wendet sich im letzten Moment und XXI macht etwas Unvorhersehbares.

Keiner gewinnt:
Beide sterben während des Kampfes. Oder der Kampf wird aus irgendeinem Grund unterbrochen. Es ist möglich, dass XXIs wahre Absichten während des Kampfes enthüllt werden und das Turnier mitten im Kampf abgebrochen wird oder etwas Ähnliches. Und XXI zwingt seine Verbündeten zum vorzeitigen Handeln.

Das Tolle an diesen 3 Szenarien ist, dass keines so viel abstruser klingt als das andere. Theoretisch könnten sie alle eintreten. Mit anderen Worten, jedes der 3 Szenarien hätte die Chance einzutreten. Das ist es, was ich so unglaublich spannend finde.

Oh, Sei und Susu sind auch zu sehen. Sei klaut gerade Arckou's Ding, wo er immer mit einer Tasse Kaffee/Tee zu sehen ist.

Ja, Nea. Mal eine Frage. Wie oft hatte die Mehrheit in deinen Umfragen recht behalten? Hoffentlich schafft es Goku tatsächlich zu gewinnen.

I already noticed that on the previous page. For some reason you look at the fight between 2 rivals who want to have a respectful fight with each other in the same way as between 2 enemies who want to kill each other at all costs. It's already been said on the previous page that your assessment of the Vegeta vs Goku fight completely misses the point DBM was trying to convey. Please stop acting like Goku and Vegeta wanted to kill each other or something. They wanted a fight where they would test all their might on their rival and that's exactly what they did.


Well, if you want to look that closely, almost all the aliens in the Dragonball universe speak English. Why? How is it that the exact same language has developed on such different planets? ... Sometimes you shouldn't take things too seriously. 1 Replie(s)

Interesting detail. XXI counts in years, not minutes. The paneling looks cool on this page. You could bring that in more often. And nice to see Eleim for a change. 3 Replie(s)

Ich kann mich mit dem dunkel-lila Oberteil nicht anfreunden. Es ist nicht schlecht, allerdings stört es mich ein wenig. Hoffentlich kann ich mich daran gewöhnen. Die alternativen Farben, die das Team mal gezeigt hat, sind nicht besser. Dennoch glaube ich, dass ein türkises Oberteil besser wäre. Genug genörgelt. Super Seite, vorallem die Son Bra Nahaufnahmen sind in Farbe gut geworden. 1 Replie(s)

Ha, Goku does the same as Coldyu before the fight against Son Bra (on page 1167). Isn't it great when people in Dragonball use their brains?

DBM's greatest hits in terms of sidecharacter OCs in the first two panels. I like it. The main/anouncer Varga, Sei. The audience representative OCs, Zarya and Bruce. Asura really likes to draw them ... alot!

The way U19 is seen here as such incredible victims who are granted a wish with complete certainty, I wonder if U12 Future Trunks doesn't regret not crying every 5 minutes that he wants to do something good with the Dragon Balls. Haha. Maybe then he would have been officially granted a wish as well. Somehow today's page makes U19 as a whole more of a MacGuffin than seeing each character as a real figure with personality.

And why is North Kaioshin actually in the ring? Sure, for the finale, a special occasion as the new leader of the organizers. But he's literally declared the match to have started while he's still standing in the middle of it. He would virtually be in the firing line of the two if they really were to start attacking KI-Blasts immediately. Haha

This is the last time I can post this image. It was a funny ride, North, you and your instigation to continue the tournament, despite all the chaos that has happened so far. xD


(Hollywood Undead lyrics)

Oh Nea. Ich habe deine Umfragen vermisst. Ich tippe auf Goku. Und am Ende wird sich XXI den Wunsch unter den Nagel reißen, so wie im Flashback Kapitel vorbereitet. 1 Replie(s)

Goku hat im Kampf gegen Majin Buu und Babidi lediglich Zeit geschunden, als er seine Transformation zeigte und sogar erklärte. Damit Kid Trunks unbemerkt den Dragonball Radar aus Capsule Corps zu Gottes Palast bringen kann. Was ist der Plan von Future Trunks hier? Ich bin absolut offen, sogar für die kleinsten Pläne von Trunks in diesem Kampf. Leider habe ich das Gefühl, wir kriegen lediglich eine Erklärung, damit der Leser (Durchbrechen der 4te Wand) es erfährt, nicht damit Zamasu er erfährt. Aber ich lasse mich gerne eines besseren belehren.

Ich habe schon damals die Referenz zu Hémisphères gefeiert, als ich die Seite zum ersten mal gesehen habe. Immer wieder schön zu sehen, wie Figuren aus Salagir's anderen Comic-Projekten immer wieder als Zuschauer in DBM auftauchen. Das Kind und die Mutter sind eigentlich auch nur Nebencharaktere, dennoch genial die hier zu sehen.

Goku in NSSJ and in color. I believe the first official color depiction of NSSJ. Everything else I think was just Asura's fanart on his Deviantar account.

And lol, Tien is floating, but of course.

Alle finalen Kontrahenten von Goku in den Turnieren. Sehr schöner Verweis auf OG Dragonball. 1 Replie(s)

Unfortunately, this is a widespread misconception.

(In DBM continuity) Freeza was born in age 570. In U1, Freeza was killed by the Kaioshin in age 712. Which means Freeza was 142 years old at the moment of his death in U1.

It was never mentioned in any way that the 2 Frostdemon brothers were killed as infants by North Kaioshin in U1. The artstyle of that special chapter may somehow spread confusion or people spread false information somewhere.

In the official Dragonball, it may be treated differently in terms of how the age of Freeza's race is portrayed, but in DBM, a frost demon in the triple digits is definitely not considered an toddler.

In the original run of DB, the Mafuba was only used against Piccolo Daimao and Piccolo Jr. After that, we didn't see this technique again, although it would have been incredibly useful, despite its drawbacks.

Goten-Kun has come up with an explanation as to why this is the case. And it's perfectly legitimate. Especially when it's incorporated into the story. Whether you agree with it or not, I can personally appreciate it more than if you completely ignore it.

Acting like the Mafuba doesn't exist or other instances where DB characters suddenly never use or address essential skills/information again, is incredibly disheartening sometimes as a DB fan. This is an explanation about the Mafuba I can live with.

Das würde bedeuten, nach Oberteufel Piccolo, gibt es nur Piccolo Jr. und dann Raditz, bis wir zu Nappa kommen, im Bezug auf Powerlevel.

Piccolor Jr. war in der Lage die Anti-Mafuba einzusetzen. Und in deiner Kontinuität ist die Mafuba bei einem Gegner wie Nappa bereits wirkungslos.

Interessanter Punkt. Deine Ansicht, welche ich respektieren werde. Allerdings wirft das dennoch folgende Frage auf. Was ist mit Raditz in diesem Szenario? Er ist definitiv schwächer als Nappa in diesem Kampf. Könnte man Raditz 'nocht' mit der Mafuba versiegeln? Wenn man betrachtet, wie Yamchu den schwächsten der Saiyajin beinahe alleine besiegt, klingt die Frage beinahe überflüssig. Dennoch wollte ich mal fragen. 1 Replie(s)

Es ist schon interessant zu sehen, wie man die vielen neuen farbigen Transformationen in DBS unterscheiden möchte, in einem Schwarz/Weiß Comic.

Zur Information, thibault bestätigt im englischen Kommentarbereich, dass es sich um "Vegeta I" handelt.

Der Saiyjin mit Brille ist natürlich ein Cameo. Dennoch wirkt es merkwürdig, vorallem einen Saiyajin aus der Vergangenheit mit Brille zu sehen. Wirft mich glatt aus der Erzählung raus.

Yes, the “Latest Page” button has been replaced with a “First Page” button. The first page of each comic here on the DBM website will also display an image of the reading direction. 2 Replie(s)

What a contrast to Dai Kaioshin's transformation. ZenBuu has led him to not interfere and let things take their course, while I'K'L has led South to take a much more active role in the events.


What irony, isn't it.
I guess that explains whether I'K'L possessed South or not. Because I'K'L would never claim XXI was a respectable person in South's body after the word exchange with Yamcha on page 2323.


Yes, I think so too. Basically, panel 4 from page 548, panel 1 from page 555 and panel 1 from page 554 have been used for this collage for panel 4 here on today's page. It's easy to forget how important the events from chapter 25 actually are for DBM.


It will be really interesting to see what happens next. Because so far South looks like he's been influenced by I'K'L, but definitely not possessed. He may now have I'K'L's ability, but not 100% adopted his point of view.

The way it looks to me is that I'K'L chose South because out of everyone present in U0, at the time just before he died, South was the one with the most similar views on the DBM tournament. However, this does not mean that South seems to have 100% the same view as I'K'L.

Furthermore, this is a confirmation that I'K'L obviously did not transfer his own memories to South, otherwise South would know immediately that XXI at least should not be trusted blindly.


Just like the people who claimed that the fight between Goku and Vegeta was definitely over with the one-punch scene, and we definitely won't get a sequel. Or when Bujin claimed that XXI was definitely gone and we wouldn't get to see him anymore. ;)
Some people jump to conclusions and don't think outside the box. Although DBM of all things gives you enough time to think up every possible scenario until the plot is advanced.


The way XXI put it on page 2450, it sounded very much like South per se is a very easy to manipulate person, you don't even have to use magic or other skills to get him to do what you want. Just use the right words at the right time.


Originally, I'K'L wanted to kill everyone present in U0. Even though Yamcha tried to talk him out of it, I'K'L at least wanted to eliminate XXI. But that doesn't mean that XXI was his main target.
I'K'L wanted to entrust his power to someone who would pursue his goal. Eliminate everyone present at the DBM tournament. Gast would never use this power to kill others. Freeza, on the other hand, would use this power, but for his own purposes. It seems unbelievable, but South is the one who shares I'K'L's views the most. A twisted view of justice and order that forces violence on others to prevent more suffering, etc.


Good point. Why didn't I'K'L make sure South was aware that XXI was also a danger? My guess is that I'K'L didn't have enough time to pass on all his knowledge to South and only the essentials, like his ability. Don't forget, page 2482 indicates that I'K'L canceled the time stop shortly before his death so that he could quickly transfer all his abilities to South in the last (mili) seconds. Mistakes can happen under time pressure.

And that's not Broly. It's Romanesco. The LSSJ from a thousand years ago, Broly's predecessor, so to speak. In DBM continuity, the LSSJ is actually a mythical abnormality of the universe that pops up every 1000 years. In most DBM universes, Romanesco was jointly defeated by Hanasia, East Kaioshin, Kibito and all the Saiyans. In U1, Romanesco was defeated by the Kaioshins together. A thousand years later, they decided to kill Broly as a precaution, because they knew exactly what Broly could become later because they fought his predecessor Romanesco.
Page 554 - Page 555

DBS Broly's animal pelt? Just the regular Ancient Saiyan clothes, but wouldn't surprise me if that was the "inspiration" to give DBS Broly that specific design in the end. xD 1 Replie(s)

Not to discourage the enthusiasm of some people, but please remember what a fighter XXI truly is. Look back to his tournament fights. The finale can and should be epic, but please don't expect something like Vegeta vs Goku. 1 Replie(s)

Ich bin ein kleines bisschen enttäuscht. Warum wurde der Himmel nicht in denselben Farben koloriert wie auf Seite 1313 vom Hauptcomic? Das U8 Spezial-Kalpitel behandelt exakt dieselbe Szene, lediglich aus einem anderem Winkel. Ich kann verstehen, wenn man die Trümmerhaufen im Hintergrund anders koloriert, weil sie im Kapitel 57 anders gezeichnet sind, etc. Der Himmel dagegen, da hatte ich eigentlich erwartet dieselben Faben zu sehen. Keine Kritik am Stil, sondern eben die Auswahl der Farben. 1 Replie(s)

With the power of I'K'L and his corrupted mind, South is now independent of Elder Kaoshin and the XXI, his own party here. But it was so clear that it must have nothing to do with XXI, but with I'K'L, why South is acting so strange. The very first page of the chapter (page 2482) was actually enough of a clue.

@FearfulDivine
Please do not use full uppercase for entire words in comments. It's against the rules here and this has been mentioned enough as of late. 3 Replie(s)

Wo ist Tenshinhan in South Kaioshin's Vorstellung? Die einzige logische Erklärung wäre, Tien ist nicht korrumpierbar, haha. xD

Der Prinz von Niemandem. Haha, der ist gut.

I can assure you, that Elder Kaioshin in DBM most certainly does not have the ability to switch bodies.


I think you've misunderstood something here. XXI is speaking his part of this page independent of Elder Kaioshin's comment. It was merely put together for this page as if they were both saying this at almost the same time (yes, this means XXI is talking to himself atm). In order to bridge to the title of the chapter and give the impression that both have now played their cards to the best of their ability until the next step. The actual finale.


In my honest opinion, if Nappa is not able to become SSJ1 now, he will never make it in DBM. It was made clear at the beginning of the comic that Raditz outclasses the Ginyu-Force. Nappa should be at least about as strong or stronger than Raditz. The bald guy has gotten a boost via Majin Slave since he arrived in, and now another boost via XXI. Sure, maybe not a big jump in power level in relation to Nappa, but the gap between Ginyu power level and Goku SSJ1 Namek power level should be small enough by now for Nappa to finally reach the SSJ. From now on, all that should be missing is the right trigger, not the power itself.


In the bigger picture, this is only a hypothetical possibility, thanks to the blockage in Raditz's Mystic.
If U18 Goku and U13 Raditz fight side by side for even a moment, that's reason enough for me to keep the blockade up.


Well, that goes along with XXI's previous portrayal that he is being incredibly cautious in his plans.
Ultimately, as discussed with U13, he just wants his new allies to provide him with a distraction long enough for him to snatch the dragon's wish. Cell would certainly be an excellent asset, but the others will probably be enough.


You can go a little further. Of all the fighters in the MR-Arc, Cell held his own against Majin Bra the best. Gohan himself admitted that Cell was probably stronger than him after the MR-Arc. As mentioned on page 1927.


U17 has not been SSJ3 power level tier for a long time. He was already Mystic Powerlevel Tier at the beginning of the MR arc. I really hope people didn't draw the wrong conclusions when they read the U18 Vegeta vs Cell tournament match.

Nicht vergessen. XXI will lediglich eine Ablenkung mit den neuen Verbündeten erzwingen, damit er sich den Wunsch des Sieger an den Nagel reißen kann, falls er verlieren sollte. Egal wie stark oder wie viele sich ihm anschließen. Ziel ist keine Armee aufzustellen, sondern ungestört Porunga einen bestimmten Wunsch vorzutragen. Das kann am Ende auch nur um Sekunden oder höchsten eine Minute handeln.

Damals war mir eine Sache nie wirklich klar. Die Varga haben keine einheitliche 'Federfarbe', sondern jeder Varga ist anders. In Gogeta Jr. Zeichnungen, wollte man noch darauf abzielen, wie alle Varga gleich aussehen. Allerdings bin ich ein größerer Fan von Asura's Darstellung der Varga. Ich weiß es allerdings sehr zu schätzen, wie das Kolorierungsteam im Nachinein versucht die Varga an Asura's Darstellung näher ran zu bringen, indem man versuch so vielen Varga wie möglich untersciedliche Farben zu geben.

Vielleicht überdenke ich das auch ein bisschen. Nichtsdestotrotz, großer Fan der komischen Vögel in DBM.

Diese Zahl, 27. Dies habe ich mir gemerkt, und damals im Bojack Special CH43 sehen wir dann tatsächlich 27 Figuren auf Seite 966. Bojack's ursprüngliche Crew. Echt toll, wenn solche Details fortgeführt werden im Comic.

May ist so eine Wildcard. Man weiß enifach nicht was sie kann, und es wird außer auf dieser Seite auch nicht mehr erwähnt, bis zu dem Special über den Konflikt zwischen Bojack und die Magical Girls. Die Idee dahinter ist allerdings genial und ich bin froh, wie kreativ man die spezielle Fähigkeiten für die DBM OCs verteilt hat.

Die Fortsetzung auf das Kapitel 104 mit U7 Gast und zum wahrscheinlichen Kampf Cell vs Gast (Page 2481) wird irgendwann kommen, allerdings nicht demnächst. Da muss man leider geduldig warten. 2 Replie(s)

Oh, Trunks and Bulma have been hiding again, huh. Okay, I won't dwell on it anymore. Really interesting how DBM portrays Elder Kaioshin and XXI as arch enemies, nicely done visually here on the page too. So far we only know Elder Kaioshin's version. I'm sure once we get to read the U5 special, we'll get to see from XXI's version his fight and apparent only victory over Elder Kaioshin.

Nice detail that from XXI's point of view, Cell is arguably the strongest obvious villain in the arena. And Cell will definitely get involved in the mayhem on his own once it happens. He's already mentioned on page 2093 how he'd like to get involved in something like this before he leaves U0.


Elder Kaioshin does not have such ability.


Not sure. Something changed in South when Yamcha tried to kill I'K'L. As shown on page 2482. Anything before that is clearly South being a good person incapable to be turned into a Majin slave.


My theory. Fake-Anju will somehow give Uub the nudge to finally figure out how to create portals in regard of pocket-dimensions. Similar portal how ZenBuu did on page 2066.


Considering Tien hasn't done much, this could be another indication that we'll see U9 again and Tien, among others, will show what he's really made of. (Wukong, ZenBuu, Freeza Minions, Cell Jr #1 tag-team. Not enough Feats for Tien imo)


I think that's XXI's assessment, that of the people present, Cell is the strongest actual villain. In other words, DBM is confirming here that Vegetto is not evil. 2 Replie(s)

Interessanter Punkt mit Cell. Ergibt Sinn. Cell war ständig in seinem U17 Areal in der Arena. Keine Chance für XXI ihn subtil anzusprechen. Allerdings hat Cell selbst erwähnt, er möchte gerne beim nächsten Chaos wieder mitmischen. Page 2093. Der Bio-Androide wird bestimmt von selbst die Chance nutzen für etwas Spaß, sobald XXI's Back-Up-Plan mit den Bösewichten startet.


Ich finde es toll, wie hier in DBM wirklich darauf gebaut wird, die beiden tatsächlich als eine Art Rivalen oder eine Art Ying-Yang darzustellen.


Die Möglicheit besteht, ich bezweifle das allerdings. Genau wie Goku und Vegeta aus U18 oder Vegetto und Son Bra aus U16 niemals Elder Kaioshin's Fähigkeit das Potential komplett freizusetzen in Anspruch nahmen. Klar, klare Bedrohung steht möglicherweise bevor mit XXI. Nichtsdestotrotz, das Finale steht kurz bevor und allen sollte im Klaren sein, wenn XXI handeln sollte, dann gleich nach seinem Sieg oder Niederlage. Nicht genug Zeit ein weiteres Ritual durchzuführen.

Hezel and Nitta are no longer Special Chapter exclusives. Really great callback to page 1597 and page 1598, when the U9 Z-Fighters left for the DBM tournament and Videl left them the keys to her bike. Krillin's students actually wrecked Videl's bike, haha. Brilliant.




7 shadows appearing out of nowhere. Wait a minute.
Videl, Tien, Yamcha, Krillin, Elder Kaioshin, that's 5 ... Bulma and Trunks, that would make 7.

So they are canon in the DBM comic after all. Makes sense, there's already been a handful of scenes with them besides the infamous chapter 19 cover, but I wish DBM wouldn't flip-flop so much screentime when it comes to Bulma and Trunks of all people. They are canon, show up sporadically, but do nothing. It's so weird and not in a funny way. Because plainly it means that Bulma and Trunks have actually always been present, but for some reason do nothing. Would almost have been better if they had never been there. I know there was a mini-comic that plays it up in a funny way. Nonetheless, it's very disappointing that the only Bulma present in the DBM tournament does nothing (no interaction with anyone, no side-plot to emphasize that Bulma is indeed constantly maintaining Cyborg Yamcha, making her a key component why Yamcha is SSJ1+ Powerlevel Tier, etc). So blatant that she either misses everything because she's in the bathroom, or literally watches everything from the sidelines without comment. That was an incredibly sad and wasted potential of her character. This is why I always wished U9 Trunks and Bulma were DBM Novel Exclusives. 2 Replie(s)

It was repeatedly pointed out not to leave comments with full uppercase. Even if it's just a single word of a long essay. From now on, such comments will be deleted immediately without warning! Rule #5!

Ich glaube nicht, dass Chichi und Vegeta im Manga auch nur ein einziges Wort miteinander gewechselt haben. Im Anime gibt es, glaube ich, eine (Filler) Szene in der Cell-Arc. Dort fragen die Z-Kämpfer Chichi, ob sie Gohan erlauben würde, zu trainieren und später an den Cell-Spielen teilzunehmen. Vegeta erwähnt etwas über Saiyajins und ihren Drang zu kämpfen, und dass sogar Gohan dies spürt, usw.
Allerdings müsste ich diese Szene nochmals suchen.

There is a good point that some people make. Has South Kaioshin ever shown that he can read minds? Probably, but have we ever seen it? There could well be a possibility that mind reading is not one of South's strengths and that is why he has never worked on improving this skill?

I also have to raise a question, how often do we actually see Kaioshin's mind reading in DBZ? Serious question, because I'm not sure about this at all.


I really like how Raditz's diplomatic skills are brought out again.


No, that's wrong. South did not read the soldier's thoughts on page 524. It was obvious that someone sneaking around wanted to find the dragonballs.


Raditz does not lie. He is firmly convinced that he has lost more than he has gained in this situation.


To be honest, that's an interesting question. While DBS regards Mystic as a transformation, DBM does not. It's a state in your base form, so to speak. Gohan never activated the SSJ again in DBZ, after the ritual. This suggests that Gohan literally can't do it anymore or is fully aware that it's unnecessary and a waste of energy because he's already stronger than SSJ1 in Mystic, which is his new base form.

This would also apply to Raditz. The Oozaru form would no longer give him an advantage because he has already reached his full potential in Mystic. The transformation would add nothing. 3 Replie(s)

Mir gefällt wirklich, wie Raditz hier mit Worten versucht, sich aus der Schlinge zu ziehen. Es bestätigt, was Vegeta früher im Turnier gesagt hat, dass Raditz der Diplomat ihrer Gruppe ist. Ich vermute, der Grund, warum Raditz bleiben wollte, ist, einen Weg zu finden, die Blockade aufzuheben. Andernfalls gäbe es kein Problem, nach U13 zurückzukehren. Dort könnte er dann Vegeta und Nappa eliminieren. Es sei denn, Raditz ist fest davon überzeugt, dass der alte Kaioshin ihn tatsächlich schwächer gemacht hat. Schauen wir mal.


Ich möchte dir die Vorfreude nicht verderben, aber es gibt keine Anzeichen dafür, dass es in absehbarer Zeit ein U9-Special geben wird. In den offiziellen Neuigkeiten von DBM ist von einem Namek-, Uub- und Bojack-Special die Rede. 2 Replie(s)

Und schon haben die beiden hier mehr Dialog miteinander, als in DBZ, lol. 1 Replie(s)

Leider ist Panel 4 wirklich nicht gut. Da kann die farbige Version auch nichts mehr daran verbessern.
Die Szene in Farbe zu sehen, also darauf habe ich lange gewartet. Gohan ist echt heftig hier, wie er Kakarot gegen die Wand drückt. 1 Replie(s)

Perhaps Thibault Deboom is following the lore from DBM, where frostdemons get stronger with each new generation. Ergo, Chilled is not yet as strong in 1st form as Freeza is in 1st form.

Die Seite sieht beeindruckend aus.

Der ganze Schnickschnack, den Gohan hier von sich gibt, wirkte auf mich immer ein bisschen gezwungen. Aber es passt eigentlich zu ihm. Und ich finde es toll, dass er das alles mit den U13-Saiyans nur macht, um seine Tochter vor Kakarots Launen zu schützen.

Der Übergang zwischen Rückblende/Erinnerung und Gegenwart ist ziemlich gut getroffen. Es ist auf dieser Seite nur ein Panel diesmal.

Schon damals fand ich diese Seite sehr stark. Sie zeigt, wie Gohan mit seinen Kindheitstraumata konfrontiert wird. Sowas wird in anderen Fanprojekten oder in Canon DB selten angesprochen.

Bei der Therapie, immer gut für ein paar Gags.

Irgendwie muss ich an Mr. Burns aus Simpsons denken, bei diesem Anti-Eindringling Knopf, haha.

Ich vermute es handelt sich um eine "The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time" Referenz.

I can say from experience that there are people who comment here purely out of hatred and bitterness, who just want to stir up trouble. (Enough of these people have admitted it in the end.) So, forgive me if I just don't believe it that a fan would be so invested in the comic, yet only leave comments that question everything in the worst way and literally can't say a single nice word about DBM. The sunk cost fallacy unfortunately forces them to keep coming back.


Speak for yourself. Don't use other people's opinions to add weight to your argument. Most people who visit this website don't comment. So you don't know what the majority of people think about it. Do not try to second-guess what the other readers have in mind.


This is the assumption that page 2482 has left us with. There must be a reason why, out of nowhere, the final exchange between Yamcha and I'K'L was shown in this chapter. South may not have been quite himself since that time.


It is very possible that there are many more remote controls. But in this particular case, I think DBM wanted to make sure that South didn't use the same remote from the Dark Varga. On page 2485, Uuv was given one, and today's page ensures that he will continue to have it for later events. South, most probably, fetched another remote.


That's sadly just the way it is. Even in this chapter, some people were absolutely sure that Raditz and Elder Kaioshin were dead because of what XXI showed the U13 Saiyans. The theory that both might still be alive was sometimes dismissed. The prospect of what may come later is often not even considered (e.g. Bujin says that XXI left the tournament. People argue XXI is gone, until he showed up. Goku apparently one-punched Vegeta into the ground in their tournament match. People argue the fight is definitely over, until later they continue to fight. etc). It's a shame really, considering there are so many what-if YouTube videos and headcanons about Dragonball that make you think outside the box.


I admit, these are valid points.

1) I assumed that Yamcha mentioned everything on page 2380, so I personally believed that South was intentionally twisting Yamcha's words here in this case and making everything out to be different than it actually was.

2) Maybe South was completely sure that neither Raditz, nor Elder Kaioshin will recover from his beating. He said he'd bring the Vargas, but he didn't. Maybe he only changed his mind on the way to Control Tower.

3) Maybe he actually wanted to bring them back in a ship, brought the remote only as a safety line, and when he realized that in U10 apartment Raditz and Elder Kaioshin are nowhere to be found, he quickly figured out that they are in U9 apartment instead.

As mentioned. You raise valid points that are hard to explain. Definitely weak points in the plot and the puzzle pieces you have to put together to explain it seem absurd. 2 Replie(s)

Now put this into South Kaioshin's head.

I'm not surprised. A certain someone just recently created an account only to complain about everything in chapter 105 in each comment.

Goku knows that he can knock out simple Red Ribbon soldiers with a single punch. He could avoid the helicopter or just break a part of the machine. He has actively decided to take the pilot's life. Goku could have told Tambourine that he will pay for what he did to Krillin. However, Goku added of his own free will that he wants to slaughter him. Which in itself indicates that he not only wants to kill him as quickly as possible, but also cruelly.

Huh, ironically Goku never tried to kill any Android. You know, somebody working for an evil world conquering army that was actively attempting to kill him. And who were far stronger and more dangerous than a simple Red Ribbon pilot. who deserved to be stopped by any means possible, considering what Gero did in the Future Timeline. Or Piccolo Jr. who is a demonspawn or rather the reincarnation of Piccolo himself. But this mischievous figure only got nasty looks from Goku until it came to the tournament fight and Goku fiercely insisted that the demonspawn be treated with respect in the tournament fight itself. Yeah, so Goku doesn't really seem to care about the demonspawn thing it seems.

My point was that there were enough examples in the series where people with actual pure hearts or generally considered good people behaved quite cold-bloodedly and murderously. We don't know what the ominous scene on page 2482 is all about. But it was certainly not placed there for no reason. There's something fishy about South that he would commit such violence on someone else with no apparent ulterior motive. But that doesn't mean he's 'evil' per se. Just like Goku isn't evil for taking the lives of others at certain moments in his life when he could have easily avoided it, or for wishing a horrible death on his friend's killer. 1 Replie(s)

Please no double posts. You can edit your comments at the beginning. Please use this feature.

Please don't write comments wih all caps.


Videl! No!

Okay, that's the final straw. From now on, it's inevitable. All the universes that have already left U0 will undoubtedly reappear in some way in the final arc. For some universes, it made sense to remove them from the story and send them back to their own universe. For some others, however, it just doesn't fit. And U9 is definitely one of those cases. We will definitely see U9 again. Just like U4 ZenBuu and others.



Page 2458 now makes a lot more sense in retrospect. The Varga can't find Yamcha because he was sent home by South via remote control.
That is indeed an interesting point. I can understand why a simple Varga who is in the arena wouldn't know the details. However, it would make sense if he briefly asks in the main tower where Yamcha is and they give him information.

That begs the question. Is it automatically displayed in the computers when an entire universe has been sent away? If that's not the case, it would mean only those who were present when it happened know about it. In this case, only South and Raditz. But that would be a glaring design flaw in the machine if it didn't indicate whether an entire universe was sent away or not.

Here's how I explain it.
The two Varga in the arena wondering where Yamcha is. They haven't checked with the main headquarters in the tower at that moment. Otherwise they would be told that U9 has already been sent away.


You could say that South has been so heavily manipulated by someone that he no longer listens to logic. ;)


No, on-screen on page 2482.




This makes a lot more sense than XXI manipulating South.


I think South is under a spell. Comparable to the Majin enslavement spell. Majin doesn't make a person evil per se, it reinforces the malevolent tendencies and suppresses all the good thoughts. South, despite being a stickler for rules per se, seems to be super obsessively doing the right thing here, like his tendencies are being amplified in the worst way at one point. He's willing to use violence, not consult anyone else, and take matters into his own hands, etc.
I'm sure we'll get an answer as to how exactly it led to this.


I advise you not to do that. Sunk-cost fallacy is a bad thing and does not bode well for you in the long run.


This is a mature decision, which I support. Because there is nothing worse than falling for the sunk-cost fallacy.


Funny you should mention it. It was made clear that only people with pure hearts can use the cloud, otherwise they would fall through, as was the case with Roshi and Bulma. Later, Goku kills a Red Ribbon helicopter pilot in cold blood using the cloud. And when he confronts Tambourine, Goku wants to murder him in cold blood, he says so directly.



And yet Goku has not fallen from the cloud. What does it mean? People with pure hearts can act evil depending on the situation and still be considered a pure-hearted person per se. If we apply that to South, it would fit. South is considered a good person who only acts evil depending on the situation. Or rather, is manipulated by something.


Yes, the problem is that many people simply don't accept DBM's concept of a webcomic. People criticize the publication of a page as being the same as the publication of a whole chapter. We know there's more to come, but still too often people act as if the latest published page is the last page of the chapter. 3 Replie(s)

On page 1527 it is made clear that Videl's potential was not released via ritual. And since at that moment Elder Kaioshin was in the process of releasing Raditz's potential, we can clearly assume that no one else in U9 is Mystic yet.

Ich habe schon seit langem spekuliert, dass U9 Majin Buu's Wiedererweckung verhindert haben und letzten Endes nur gegen Dabura, Yakon, Pui Pui und Fußsoldaten wie Majin Spopovich gekämpft haben. In der alten Auffassung der Mafuba, können bloß Dämonen mit der Technick eingesperrt werden. Meine Vermutung, U9 hat es geschafft Dabura mithilfe der Mafuba zu verseiegeln und haben Yakon und Pui Pui traditionell besiegt.

Videl! Nein!

Okay, das ist der Schlussstrich. Von nun an ist es unvermeidlich. Alle Universen, die U0 bereits verlassen haben, werden zweifellos in irgendeiner Weise im finalen Arc wieder auftauchen. Bei einigen Universen lag es nahe, sie aus der Geschichte zu entfernen und sie in ihr eigenes Universum zurückzuschicken. Für einige andere passt es jedoch einfach nicht. Und U9 ist definitiv einer dieser Fälle. Wir werden U9 ganz sicher wiedersehen. Genau wie U4 ZenBuu und andere.




Der Verdacht, dass es I'K'L ist, der South manipuliert hat, ergibt viel mehr Sinn als XXI, um ehrlich zu sein.

Warum sollte man bis kurz vor I'K'Ls Tod zurückblättern (Page 2482), wenn die geheimnisvollen Gedanken in South nicht von I'K'L stammen?
XXI begann erst nach seinem Kampf gegen Gast zu handeln, indem er die anderen Teilnehmer auf seine Seite zog und andere sabotierte. Es wäre zu früh für XXI, buchstäblich Minuten vor seinem Kampf gegen Gast zu handeln und South davon zu überzeugen, sich unfreiwillig auf seine Seite zu stellen. Vor allem, wenn XXI selbst auf Page 2450 zugibt, dass man nur ein paar einfache Worte braucht, um South dazu zu bringen, das zu tun, was man will, keine Magie oder ähnliches.

Es ist nun entweder I'K'L oder XXI, die South manipuliert haben. Mal sehen was am Ende rauskommt.

WaZaKun hat hier vielleicht eine Anspielung auf das bekannte DBM Meme gemacht. Eine Videl Variation von Bojack's R*pe-Face. xD

Wir wissen nicht genau, wer das Loch gmacht hat. Allerdings war es höchstwahrscheinlich einer von U9, damit eine Verbindung zwischen den Apartments von U10 und U9 hergestellt werden kann.

Auf Page 1888 wechselt der alte Kaioshin den Ort für den zweiten Teil des Rituals. Damals wussten wir nicht, wohin sie gegangen sind, bis zur Page 2357. Der Grund ist vermutlich, damit niemand heraufinden kann, wo sich Raditz und der Kaioshin befinden, außer die anderen Mitglieder aus U9, und damit sie alle in der Nähe sind.

Yup. Das unterscheibe ich sofort. Yay für Videl. Sie ist die Beste. :)


Ich glaube du hast womöglich etwas falsch verstanden.

Gohan (auch schon in DBZ am Ende der Buu-Arc) ist mit Mystic nicht nur stärker als SSJ3 Goku, sondern um einiges stärker. So sehr, dass er eine eigene Powerlevel-Tier hat. (Vergleichbar der Unterschied zwischen SSJ1 -> SSJ2. Oder SSJ2 -> SSJ3. So ist SSJ3 Goku -> Mystic Gohan)

Warum Mystic Raditz stärker als U13 Vegeta SSJ3 sein sollte? Damit Vegeta (U13) endgültig besiegt wird. Das ist der Grund, warum Raditz das Potential mithilfe des Rituals überhaupt freigestzt wurde. Um Vegeta zu besiegen, muss Raditz zumindest genau so stark sein wie er. Was für einen Sinn würde es ergeben, Raditz stundenlang, zusammengefasst 2 ganze Tage, das Potential freizusetzen und im Prinzip die zweite Hälfte des DBM Turnieres zu verpassen, nur damit Raditz von Vegeta später mit einer einzige Attacke im SSJ3 getötet wird?

Kaioshin: "Ich werde dein Potential freisetzen. Das wird etwas dauern. Im Gegenzug wirst du Vegeta töten."
2 Tage später
Kaioshin: "Dein Potential wurde freigesetzt. Nun, halte dein Teil der Abmachung und befreie U13 von Vegeta."
Vegeta one-shotet Raditz.
?

Damit das Ritual bei Raditz überhaupt irgendwelchen Sinn ergibt, muss Raditz zumindest eine reale Chance haben Vegeta zu besiegen. Vegeta (U13) ist (low-)SSJ3 Powerlevel-Tier. Ergo, Raditz muss zumindest SSJ3 Powerlevel-Tier sein mit seiner Mystic Form.


Son Gohan ist allerdings immer etwas besonderes gewesen. Schon in DBZ wurde gesagt, wie Gohan als Saiyajin-Mensch Hybrid großes Potential hat. Sehr viel mehr als Goten oder Trunks. Deshalb vermutet man stark, wenn Elder Kaioshin allen Saiyajins das Potential via Ritual freisetzen würde, eigentlich fast jeder ein Low-SSJ3 Powerlevel Tier Kraft hätte. Rein hypothetisch gesprochen, wäre Mystic Bardock SSJ3 Stark, Mystic Hanasia wäre SSJ3 stark, Mystic Vegeta Senior wäre SSJ3 stark. Mystic Nappa wäre SSJ3 stark. Lediglich Gohan ist die Ausnahme und um einiges stärker.

OMG. Look at this wonderful rape face. Someone learned from Bojack. lol.

The blockade works exactly according to Elder Kaioshin's plan. Now just about any good person can just whack Raditz if they have to. Even Sei. lol. And in U13 there will be at most a sole suppressor with Kakarot. Better than 2 with Raditz or like originally 4.

Edit:



Take another look at the previous page. Next to Tien, there's a tiny little panel. This indicates that a little time has just passed. Enough time for U9 members to bandage Raditz and Elder Kaioshin and them explain what's going on. And enough time for South to seek out the remote control to send people back to their universe. He probably wanted to send Raditz and Elder Kaioshin away personally. In the sense, a few last words before he presses the button. Or a Varga is walking into the room right after South on the next page. Holding the remote. Something like this.


Edit2:
The fact that Videl, of all people, has the urge to teach Raditz a lesson may be due to page 1122, where Raditz fooled the others for a short time, making them believe that he might not do anything bad as soon as he returns with the Mystic Power in U13. Here again, after Elder Kaioshin's speech, Raditz simply replies that he will instruct someone else to do evil. Videl must have been fed up with him making a fool of her (and U9) for the second time.


Edit3:
I just couldn't resist, lol.

1 Replie(s)

Bitte keine profanen Ausdrücke im Kommentarbereich.

Some really seem to drift into the realm of hypotheticals. A lot of people have already given a lot of examples where it's about the morality of a person. Who decides who is good and bad? DBM is a fan manga, yet still Dragonball. Elder Kaioshin was obviously trying to create a typical Dragonball black and white situation here. Someone who is inherently evil, or people with pure hearts. Salagir in this case wasn't trying to have people read between the lines and discover any subtext that wasn't placed.

South is a being with a pure heart. And in the present moment, merely for some unfathomable reason, he is behaving strangely evil. But he's not evil per se.

Think back to Dragonball, please.

Roshi explains to Goku that Kinto'un only carries people who are pure of heart. In other words, good people. Later, Goku coldly kills a Red Ribbon helicopter pilot using the flying cloud. Or when Goku meets Tambourine, he says in anger that he wants to kill him.
And Goku didn't fall from the cloud. Why? Because Goku is generally pure of heart, even when he's put in situations where he murders someone in cold blood or says he wants to murder someone in cold blood. The principle of good and evil in Dragonball is not situational, and Dragonball fans should know that.



A situation alone does not make a person fundamentally different. That's always been the case in Dragonball. The same applies to South. And for the Blockade feature. Raditz won't be able to fight people pure of heart in the future, although they may have a moment of weakness and give free rein to their rage and lust for murder. We had that with Goku, with Gohan and also so many examples in DB.


The question is whether Raditz, with an incredibly large handicap, is justified. Because it's true. That was the reason Elder Kaioshin did it in the first place. You have to remember back to page 1122, please. Raditz thought he could play off Elder Kaioshin by offering the lesser of two evils by getting the Mystic Powerup from U13 alone and eliminating Vegeta and Nappa. But what Raditz didn't realize is that Elder Kaioshin just turned the tables. Because now Elder Kaioshin has reduced the evil once again and forced Raditz involuntarily onto the path of good.

Variant #1: U13 as it was before. 4 suppressors.
Variant #2: Mystic Raditz kills Vegeta and Nappa. 2 suppressors (Raditz & Kakarot)
Variant #3: Mystic Raditz with blockade. Without Nappa and Vegeta. 1 suppressor with Kakarot.

From Elder Kaioshin's point of view, variant #3 clearly seems to be the best chance to protect the innocents in U13 as well as possible. Sure, Kakarot can still do a lot of damage, but in the end it's better than having 2 Suppressors. Elder Kaioshin's plan worked.

No provocations and no subliminal insults. Lets remain civil.

Wie ironisch wäre es, wenn Nappa sich so überanstrengen würde, dass er selbst vor Erschöpfung tot umfällt, verursacht vor allem durch einen abgetrennten Arm.

How long did Tien last again in DBZ with a severed arm in the fight against Nappa? Maybe this Nappa's situation is meant to mimic that in a way.


I have to think of the Android Arc from DBZ. They spent 3 years preparing for the arrival of the Androids and for the most part couldn't make an impact. Then they spend an extra year in HTC, and suddenly they can all one-shot #18.

Somehow they managed to do a lot more in one year than they did in the 3 years before. Maybe the type of training is important. Perhaps it is also relevant whether the threat is close at hand versus a hypothetical threat that is a long way off. 4 Replie(s)

This must be a real master plan by Future Trunks, though. Maybe Trunks thinks for a moment that he's Baby from GT, who takes over the bodies of his opponents when they're at their most powerful.

Jokes aside, I really don't understand Trunks' plan and hope for something solid. It doesn't have to be anything special. As long as it's not just the typical Z-Fighter/Saiyan way of intentionally letting the opponent power up so you have a more interesting fight.

Warum ausgerechnet Future Trunks überhaupt erlaubt, dass es soweit kommt und Black sich transformieren kann/darf, bleibt mir ein Rätsel.

Oh no, it's a simple space blaster. That means anyone could be taken out easily. Chilled has practically lost and will be lucky if he survives. xD

Ich mag es, wenn es in Geschichten nicht immer nach Plan läuft. Dieses Anpassen an die gegebene Situation gibt den Hauptfiguren die Möglichkeit ihre Stärken oder vielleciht auch ihre Schwächen zum Vorschein zu bringen. Sowas führt meistens zu guten und möglicherweise auch emotionalen Charaktermomenten.