What's gonna be real interesting to me is if Kami is alive or not, will Ghast wish everyone back for Earth to still have their happy ending??? Did Gero die or is he in charge of some neo Red Ribbon empire? Very curious to see what this alternative earth turns into.

Majinization works just like in original, feeding in negative emotions of the possessed.
The Ogre kid is not Janemba, never was and never will be. This isn't Tapion and Hirudegarn, or whatever (the best example would be outside of DB so.. idk, Naruto and Kyuubi? Ichigo and White?) . Janemba was a combination of all the negative souls in the purifying machine using the kid as a host. Literally what the rest of Knight's comment said that you conveniently cut out of the reply.
NOWHERE is it said that Majinization makes the possessed "pure evil". It NEVER did that, and even if it did, it wouldn't make sense for it to just "create" Janemba again out of thin air.

WTF, Big Green!?
I knew he wouldnt win against XXI, but Janemba kicking his ass? they really nerfed him for this fight.

iron leaf was saying: J.I.L was saying: Why does DBM make ITS Panels so big? It looks glossier, but slowers the pacing significantly. The fighting is solid in all fairness, but the pacing is a drag.No, the pacing is incredible fast. One special technique after another. Both fighters dish it out and take it. An evidently very even match. It's rather the opposite, some people argued that DBM should have slowed down in some places so that you could dwell on a scene longer. Like with Janemba's sword, for example. My personal only weak point so far were 3 direct panels where Janemba pushes his face directly towards the reader within 5 pages (repetition).
Each attack takes about a week though. Check Gast last fireball strat. It was 3 pages from beginning to landing

Never doubted Gast for a second. Start the count! And someone go tell Goku to start warming up.

Grydon was saying: kingworld was saying: Grydon was saying: zero logic was saying: Wow, if that is your opinion, hard to change it but I like the art waaaay more than a lot of decisions taken here like Vegeto's personality, Grand Kaio's behaviour, U18's Vegeta's "growth", even the fighters selection in universes (Piccolo Daimao universe for example), plenty of stuff thst doesnt make sense
I’ll address those points you mentioned, hopefully this won’t be too long, thanks for reading in advance lmao.

Vegito’s personality does make sense, people just lack the perspective to understand it. He’s used to being a god-like figure in his universe for 20 years. He’s not Goku+Vegeta anymore after 20 years, he is Vegito. He’s extremely proud of his power as a saiyan, but at the same time his saiyan nature craves a challenge which he felt he could never get. The latter has caused his mental health to somewhat diminish over the years, which has resulted in him doing things like threatning Pan to get Gohan fight him etc. Then when the perfect opportunity finally arises, unique event that will never happen again, where he could finally get worthy challenges again, he loses to a quick magic trick. Poof, that chance of great challenges gone.

Then the former, his power has been unbeatable, untouchable for his whole existence and his proud of it. ”Against Vegito, you can only obey” or how was it. He already got beaten by a ”cheap magic trick” and lost his only chance to get challenged, but then he’s practically beaten by different types of magic time and time again, made completely powerless, put to pieces and almost killed, and all these blows are shattering his self image and pride. Also hunger is eating his nerves little by little on top of this, we’ve all been there. Then his counterparts, which in his mind should be in every way inferior to him, he’s their fusion after all, have found a way to progress in a way he never even thought of, making everyone give attention and praise to them while everyone was against him little while ago with the Bra situation. He had ”more stimulus” to improve, so how did they do that..!? It’s not about power, he’s still leagues above them, but they did something better than he did. They have a form that he never reached or figured out. People seemed to have hard time understanding his perspective, but maybe this would help: If Goku and Vegeta unlocked ssj4 and showcased that in their match, even if they were weaker than Vegito still, do you think Vegito wouldn’t be jealous of this new form that he has never reached or even thought of? He’s only limited to ssj3 while his counterparts have found the next more powerful transformation… It’s the same case here.

So little by little he is being chipped from every corner, and eventually he will snap. It’s very, very believable writing, and more complex than just ”u good guy” ”u bad guy” writing which is more typical of Dragon Ball of course, but this depth is exactly why I said the storytelling is the forte of this manga.

Regarding Vegeta, what exactly you have a problem with? In my opinion, he’s been one of the best written characters in this whole manga, much better than what Super did with him for a loong time. It felt such natural progression of his character that I genuenly considered DBM Vegeta to be the ”canon” continuation of his character before Super was announced, and with the poor way he was written there for multiple arcs, even after the show had ran for quite some time. I don’t know how they do it, but his character in DBM is so perfectly Vegeta, but after he let go of his resentment at the end of Buu arc. His speech to his U10 self, his speech to U13 Vegeta at the random planet, how he’s kind of protective of Pan, and he clearly has respect for both Gohan and Goku. All this, while still clearly being the good ol’ Vegeta. Ah it’s so good! Real character development.

Grand Kaio’s behaviour is interesting, his lack of action during Majin arc was weird, but I’ll admit that’s mostly as I’ve seen the filler scene in the anime where he was portrayed as a capable fighter, where as here that scene was ignored and a different take was chosen for him, which I can accept. Not like he would have made a difference against Majin Bra. And his companionship with Buu, I can kind of understand it. Again, it requires a bit of perspective, and not just black and white thinking. They are practically gods, Zen Buu is not just a mindless villain. They were able to connect, as higher beings, on a deeper level with all their sharing of ideas etc. Dai Kaioshin also understood that there isn’t really anything they could do against Buu which was kind of true; I personally wouldn’t have made him so phlegmatic during Buu’s final attack though, with all the ”it’s pointless to resist” etc., but it’s not the biggest deal.

Fighter selection was great, and I don’t really know what the problem is with Piccolo Daimao, or the rest of his universe; in fact it was one of the more interesting universes lol. It was cool seeing King Piccolo and him actually being somewhat powerful due to being whole. Raichi was exellent and had some of the best fights in the tournament, and Bardock’s visions were an exellent way of providing cool foreshawing of future events. Too bad they only happened at the beginning of the comic, but we are still waiting for some of them to happen. Maybe one universe I would have loved to see was Future Gohan also being present, but you can’t have it all.

There are certainly some stuff and decisions that I don’t like, like Broly’s total invincibility (the endlessly growing power is great to distinguish his form, but the invincibility was unnecessary and random), Oozaru being 2x boost, making Kakarrot vs Vegeta very random (it would have worked very well if Oozaru was the usual 10x, like ssj2 is for ssj1 in this comic), and some other nitpics here and there. But overall, the story, together with all the side plots like Ginyu, Uub’s training, Bardocks visions, Majin war etc have been amazing to read and anticipate over the decade+.

Phew yeah it became quite long, sorry about that
Rotfl I literally stopped reading the moment I read "threatening Pan".
It never ever happened once. Vegeto only pondered the option. It was more like an intrusive thought than anything, something Vegeto themselves was scared of.
My bad if it was just a throught and he didn’t go through with it, don’t remember that part so clearly.

However, it being a thought rather than action doesn’t change the point I was making one bit, so not sure why you stopped reading lol
Having an intrusive thought that you're disgusted by and afraid of is so extremely different than following on it that if the rest of your message wasn't affected by this huge difference in this assumption, then I guess the conclusions were meaningless and/or said premise useless...

Grydon was saying: zero logic was saying: Wow, if that is your opinion, hard to change it but I like the art waaaay more than a lot of decisions taken here like Vegeto's personality, Grand Kaio's behaviour, U18's Vegeta's "growth", even the fighters selection in universes (Piccolo Daimao universe for example), plenty of stuff thst doesnt make sense
I’ll address those points you mentioned, hopefully this won’t be too long, thanks for reading in advance lmao.

Vegito’s personality does make sense, people just lack the perspective to understand it. He’s used to being a god-like figure in his universe for 20 years. He’s not Goku+Vegeta anymore after 20 years, he is Vegito. He’s extremely proud of his power as a saiyan, but at the same time his saiyan nature craves a challenge which he felt he could never get. The latter has caused his mental health to somewhat diminish over the years, which has resulted in him doing things like threatning Pan to get Gohan fight him etc. Then when the perfect opportunity finally arises, unique event that will never happen again, where he could finally get worthy challenges again, he loses to a quick magic trick. Poof, that chance of great challenges gone.

Then the former, his power has been unbeatable, untouchable for his whole existence and his proud of it. ”Against Vegito, you can only obey” or how was it. He already got beaten by a ”cheap magic trick” and lost his only chance to get challenged, but then he’s practically beaten by different types of magic time and time again, made completely powerless, put to pieces and almost killed, and all these blows are shattering his self image and pride. Also hunger is eating his nerves little by little on top of this, we’ve all been there. Then his counterparts, which in his mind should be in every way inferior to him, he’s their fusion after all, have found a way to progress in a way he never even thought of, making everyone give attention and praise to them while everyone was against him little while ago with the Bra situation. He had ”more stimulus” to improve, so how did they do that..!? It’s not about power, he’s still leagues above them, but they did something better than he did. They have a form that he never reached or figured out. People seemed to have hard time understanding his perspective, but maybe this would help: If Goku and Vegeta unlocked ssj4 and showcased that in their match, even if they were weaker than Vegito still, do you think Vegito wouldn’t be jealous of this new form that he has never reached or even thought of? He’s only limited to ssj3 while his counterparts have found the next more powerful transformation… It’s the same case here.

So little by little he is being chipped from every corner, and eventually he will snap. It’s very, very believable writing, and more complex than just ”u good guy” ”u bad guy” writing which is more typical of Dragon Ball of course, but this depth is exactly why I said the storytelling is the forte of this manga.

Regarding Vegeta, what exactly you have a problem with? In my opinion, he’s been one of the best written characters in this whole manga, much better than what Super did with him for a loong time. It felt such natural progression of his character that I genuenly considered DBM Vegeta to be the ”canon” continuation of his character before Super was announced, and with the poor way he was written there for multiple arcs, even after the show had ran for quite some time. I don’t know how they do it, but his character in DBM is so perfectly Vegeta, but after he let go of his resentment at the end of Buu arc. His speech to his U10 self, his speech to U13 Vegeta at the random planet, how he’s kind of protective of Pan, and he clearly has respect for both Gohan and Goku. All this, while still clearly being the good ol’ Vegeta. Ah it’s so good! Real character development.

Grand Kaio’s behaviour is interesting, his lack of action during Majin arc was weird, but I’ll admit that’s mostly as I’ve seen the filler scene in the anime where he was portrayed as a capable fighter, where as here that scene was ignored and a different take was chosen for him, which I can accept. Not like he would have made a difference against Majin Bra. And his companionship with Buu, I can kind of understand it. Again, it requires a bit of perspective, and not just black and white thinking. They are practically gods, Zen Buu is not just a mindless villain. They were able to connect, as higher beings, on a deeper level with all their sharing of ideas etc. Dai Kaioshin also understood that there isn’t really anything they could do against Buu which was kind of true; I personally wouldn’t have made him so phlegmatic during Buu’s final attack though, with all the ”it’s pointless to resist” etc., but it’s not the biggest deal.

Fighter selection was great, and I don’t really know what the problem is with Piccolo Daimao, or the rest of his universe; in fact it was one of the more interesting universes lol. It was cool seeing King Piccolo and him actually being somewhat powerful due to being whole. Raichi was exellent and had some of the best fights in the tournament, and Bardock’s visions were an exellent way of providing cool foreshawing of future events. Too bad they only happened at the beginning of the comic, but we are still waiting for some of them to happen. Maybe one universe I would have loved to see was Future Gohan also being present, but you can’t have it all.

There are certainly some stuff and decisions that I don’t like, like Broly’s total invincibility (the endlessly growing power is great to distinguish his form, but the invincibility was unnecessary and random), Oozaru being 2x boost, making Kakarrot vs Vegeta very random (it would have worked very well if Oozaru was the usual 10x, like ssj2 is for ssj1 in this comic), and some other nitpics here and there. But overall, the story, together with all the side plots like Ginyu, Uub’s training, Bardocks visions, Majin war etc have been amazing to read and anticipate over the decade+.

Phew yeah it became quite long, sorry about that
Rotfl I literally stopped reading the moment I read "threatening Pan".
It never ever happened once. Vegeto only pondered the option. It was more like an intrusive thought than anything, something Vegeto themselves was scared of.

Wow, if that is your opinion, hard to change it but I like the art waaaay more than a lot of decisions taken here like Vegeto's personality, Grand Kaio's behaviour, U18's Vegeta's "growth", even the fighters selection in universes (Piccolo Daimao universe for example), plenty of stuff thst doesnt make sense

Remember when questioning logic on a fanfic: Salagir wrote this. Just move on and enjoy the great art, certainly the plot is not the manga's forte

Goku pulled the same tactic against Fat Janemba in Fusion Reborn, when he tried to punch him through the portal, Goku turned around and fired an energy blast through the portal like Gast and hitting Janemba, sooo...

beeruz was saying: does janemba's teleport take him regenerate injury's like buu or does he just move to another place
I don’t think it’s his teleportation that does it. More like he can just regenerate normally. If we take the fact that his body shattered when Pikkon insulted him in movie 12 and then him being shown a few frames later good as new as him regenerating that is. He also regenerates in several games if we use those as well. Considering he has all his abilities here I don’t think the DBM team will skip his regen.

Marc of The Endless was saying: ZenBuu was saying:
Also Gast is stronger than a SSJ3.
Gast's power has little to no consistency, but his raw power does not seem to exceed SSJ3 tier based on his performance against Ghost Vegeta and Broly. It is his magic that receives hyper-focus and makes him such a danger to all.
Grydon was saying: ZenBuu was saying: Isn't that Janemba made out of all the evil in U5? So by that logic, he should be way stronger than in the fusion reborn movie, since apparently XXI's universe is empty, because he devoured all of it. I'm confused why people scale this Janemba at the same power level as in the movie. The movie obviously didn't happen in DBM, hence why Goku didn't recognize him. So this Janemba can (and should) be different.

Also Gast is stronger than a SSJ3. If Janemba is the same power level like in the movie, he would've crushed him already. Unless Gast wants to hold back again for a challenge.
That’s not what was said about Janemba. He’s formed ”entirely by evil”, not by all evil of U5. So the concept is exactly the same as in the movie so far. Obviously he can be however strong the story needs him to be just like any other non-canon character here, but until we get confirmation of that, of course people will scale him according to the movie.

Also, Gast is not outright stronger than ssj3 in raw power, that much is clear from his performance against ssj3 Vegeta. And the Movie Janemba was clearly ssj3 tier himself, and together with his hax abilities was able to beat Goku quite quickly.

So Gast vs Movie Janemba’s power is actually very good matchup since Gast can’t use his op magic against him
Gast killed Hatchiyack, who should be, again, stronger just by logic. He was formed of all hatred from Raichis ghosts. You don't want to tell me this Hatchiyack was weaker than SSJ3 Vegeta? That doesn't make much sense.

Gast is known to hold back, we have clearly seen that with Piccolo Daimao. Piccolo also managed to land some hits on Gast there, does that mean Gast is weaker than him? No. He clearly says he wants some kind of challenge. Before his "fight" with Son Bra, he basically stated she is stronger than him in terms of raw power. And even then he planned to hold back against her at first. So personally I would cap him somewhere around Mystic Gohan and SSJ1 Bra.

What I want to say is, that he probably held back against SSJ3 Vegeta too, until Broly popped up and they tag team combo his ass.

Although I have to say that his desire for a challenge is in a big contrast to his desire to get a wish from the DBs to separate himself. He should prioritise his wish over a challenge in my opinion. He took a big risk against Raichi. Hopefully he doesn't do the same in this fight again.

So interesting how people seem to ignore that Janemba's power is his power, like you all are trying to separate his abilities from him. Makes no sense.

Ignoring other garbage, this is wrong. The movie power scale is not the same as the manga's, Goku is stronger than Gotenks and Gohan in the movies. There are many examples of this but none more direct than Goku defeating Hirudegarn, despite him stomping Gotenks and Gohan moments prior. Trying to cross scale like this doesn't work unless you acknowledge how much stronger Goku is in the anime and movies. In which case, it's also obvious that Janemba is far stronger than Super Boo. Hell, even Kid Boo is stronger in the anime and made to be the strongest Boo. SSJ3 tier in the manga and SSJ3 tier in the movies are vastly different beasts.

Isn't that Janemba made out of all the evil in U5? So by that logic, he should be way stronger than in the fusion reborn movie, since apparently XXI's universe is empty, because he devoured all of it. I'm confused why people scale this Janemba at the same power level as in the movie. The movie obviously didn't happen in DBM, hence why Goku didn't recognize him. So this Janemba can (and should) be different.

Also Gast is stronger than a SSJ3. If Janemba is the same power level like in the movie, he would've crushed him already. Unless Gast wants to hold back again for a challenge.

Super Gojita 3 was saying:

I recommend you rewatch that fight.


No need, you're wrong.

Goku only "matched" Super Janemba at the very beginning of their fight and was quickly overwhelmed in seconds. At no point does he display greater raw power or overpower Janemba directly, he never even scratched him with his attacks. When we cut away from a mouth blast about to impact, Goku is seen distressed. We cut back to Goku panting heavily, covered in blood and being pushed back. He was directly weaker than a casual Janemba (smiling, laughing, playing with Goku), seeing as he only got serious (he was no longer smiling and powered up for the first time) when faced with Gogeta's overwhelming might.

ZenBuu was saying:
Also Gast is stronger than a SSJ3.
Gast's power has little to no consistency, but his raw power does not seem to exceed SSJ3 tier based on his performance against Ghost Vegeta and Broly. It is his magic that receives hyper-focus and makes him such a danger to all.

I imagine the fusion of all Namekians can definitely have regenerating skills strong enough to come back from that. You know, just pop out a new lower half of his body like Piccolo does with his arms when they're chopped off. Similar to what Cell did in DBM too. After all, Cell got his regen from Piccolo's cells.

Gast should be fine.

It's still insane to think that wasn't when he became "good" and that it only stuck when he said "gee the main character do be stronger than me.

The fact is that Vegeta sacrificed his life.. Twice.
At this point, DBM states "he's still evil, that's why Vegeto is like that" and you're stating "yep! Still going to hell."

20 minutes later, Vegeta says "Man, I understand your strength now Kakarot. You always want to surpass yourself. You're the best!" and suddenly, apparently, according to DBM, this is the tipping scale, NOW Vegeta isn't evil and according to you, NOW he's not going to hell.

Yeah, no.

MUI was saying: beeruz was saying: Grifter was saying: beeruz was saying:

MUI was saying: Gast is raw power wise not even that impressive. He was having trouble with a rookie SSJ3 Vegeta. This Janemba defeated SSJ3 Goku. So its not that crazy that Gast is in trouble against someone like Janemba. I think Janemba is in the same ballpark as Super Buu/SSJ3 Gotenks.
We don't know if janemba will be the same strength as in the movie + gast was also fighting broly
That Broly was nowhere as strong as U20 broly, Plus in the novel its confirmed that U3 Broly surpassed Gast pretty much as soon as he appeared on the ring.
He was approaching u20 in strength as the panel where he is presented show Goku Vegeta piccolo and even Gohan in dismay + it's not whether gast was stronger than u20 broly it's the fact he was facing both at the same time and if the broly wasn't there I think Vegeta would have won.Also I think people are forgetting that raichi's machine amplifies the strength of the ghost so while u13 Vegeta was new to ssj3 the ghost was stronger and more likely had a better control of it.

Ghost Vegeta at most had better control over his SSJ3, stronger? No. The ghosts are not stronger, they can work better with each other and have better control over their transformations. But powerlevel wise they are equal to their living counterparts.
And btw, Gast never had a chance against U3 Broly. Broly was tanking his attacks like Gast was a baby. When Gast regenerated he had to take down Raichi offguard else he would get slaughtered.
Re-read rachi vs Vegeta bro page 890 outright states the ghost are stronger than the originals.Also I don't think gast is terribly strong but I do think he's stronger than most people give him credit for and stronger than ssj3 vegeta which is why I think he would have beat him if broly wasn't there.Broly was tanking his attacks because punches and attacks have no effect on him anyways.That's why in every universe he's been defeated by being overwhelmed.Vegito overwhelmed him with his attack,Father son kamehama,and the u19 carbonite in u3.He's never been defeated with punches and kicks and even when gast punches him no one expects it to have an effect which is why vegito says"duh" when he does.

How can people say Gast is SSJ3 level? He fought vegeta AND Broly at the same time. He was completely “destroyed” to the point where the Vargas couldn’t see him and were counting down and then… he instantly regenerated.

As far as I’m concerned Gast did not take any damage in that fight.

I believe U18 Vegeta at SSJ3 is around gohan and cells level based on salgar’s comments
Q. Is SSJ2 or SSJ3 Vegeta stronger than Mystic Gohan?

Salagir: Most of a powerlevel questions I will answer "don't care". As you know, of course SSJ2 can't be stronger than Mystic Gohan no matter who is SSJ2. And for SSJ3, they're more or less in the same tier, so who knows? SSJ3 is reducing your fighting time which is something I invented & it is not official, to put more pressure & add more problems for the characters. And Gohan doesn't have this problem. (16:07 min - part 3)

Essentially Gohan has the advantage against SSJ3 vegeta due to ssj3 stamina issue.
But power wise they are close. So U18 SSj3 vegeta should wreck U13 SSJ3 vegeta with low to no dif .
Vegeta’s new form might be far above his SSJ3 since gohan’s power is essentially what goku and Vegeta’s are but vegeta and goku at their normal ssj3 are around gohan’s power. So their new form should be so much stronger. Probably below SSJ3 gotenks who’s at Vegito Ssj lvl or above him. But still a massive boost

Grydon was saying: SSJ Your Nick was saying: Is Gast even that strong?
Back in the special chapter he beat Cold (About Android 16-ish power level) and was clearly exhausted. And yeah he was stated to beat Freeza, Cell and Buu, but we don't really know what form Cell takes in his world, and he would need to be Semi-Cell at least to be a challenge for Gast, but we don't know if he ever got to Perfect. Buu, we know is helpless against him magic so it's irrelevant how strong he is.

Janemba is... I dunno somewhere between Super Buu and Buutenks I would guess (Based on the feats of the Goku/Vegeta that fought him in the movie), and presumably immune to Gasts magic based on this page. It's possible Gast is going to lose quite badly here if he's only mid-Cell level.

I guess you haven’t seen anything of Gast in the main story, just the specials? Because if you have, you’d know Gast effortlessly killed a Cell Jr. that was stronger than the Super Perfect Cell from Cell games, fought evenly with ssj3 Vegeta while also surviving Broly at the same time, and defeated Hatchiyak, which was a combination of all of his ghosts and stated in the novel to be in the ssj Vegito levels. Though Gast was not as strong as Hatchiyak, it was more of a Piccolo-Raditz situation where a highly concentrated blast + opponent being off guard managed to defeat a much stronger opponent. But a high ssj3 level he definitely is due to fighting Vegeta and still managing to muster such a killing blow to Hatchiyak.

Also, he’s obviously a high tier opponent to make Bra forfeit; she was stronger than Gast, but Gast was strong enough to be able to utilize his strong magic against her. If he was just mid-Cell level, Gast wouldn’t even be able to react to anything she does, so OP magic would not matter.

People are definitely overestimating him in the comments, saying Janemba shouldn’t be any challenge to him when he’s not really shown feats above ssj3 Vegeta outside of Magic abilities. And that would put him just around Janemba’s power as well

I think it's fair to say Gast is more around Ultimate Gohan's level of power, or not he may be on par with Goku and Vegeta of U18 in their Ultimate form.

Is Gast even that strong?
Back in the special chapter he beat Cold (About Android 16-ish power level) and was clearly exhausted. And yeah he was stated to beat Freeza, Cell and Buu, but we don't really know what form Cell takes in his world, and he would need to be Semi-Cell at least to be a challenge for Gast, but we don't know if he ever got to Perfect. Buu, we know is helpless against him magic so it's irrelevant how strong he is.

Janemba is... I dunno somewhere between Super Buu and Buutenks I would guess (Based on the feats of the Goku/Vegeta that fought him in the movie), and presumably immune to Gasts magic based on this page. It's possible Gast is going to lose quite badly here if he's only mid-Cell level.

Grydon was saying: Damian Qualshy was saying: Because of movie placement of Hatchiyak and Janemba relative to the Anime timeline. Hatchiyak was defeated by Cell Saga Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. Janemba was throwing MBS SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta around, until they fused and overpowered him in literally one move.

If Gast was SS1 Vegetto level, he shouldn't have any issues with ghost SS3 Emperor Vegeta or ghost LSSJ Broly.

And how is it weird stating that Janemba is more powerful than Hatchiyak? Why would XXI pull out a weaker entity with no additional powers?
You didn’t really answer my question and seem to confuse characters and their powers.

First of all, the TV Special Hatchiyak that Cell saga Goku and co. Defeated has nothing to do with the Hatchiyak Gast fought. Like I said in my previous comment, Hatchiyak of this tournament is ssj1 Vegito level, or if I remember correctly, above that, because he’s the combination of every ghosts’ power that Raichi has. Gast is not ssj1 Vegito tier; as you said, if he was, he wouldn’t have struggled against SSJ3 Vegeta and Broly the way he did. Gast with raw power is only ssj3 level.

So by default, if we assume Janemba to be at the level he was in the movie, he would be much weaker than Hatchiyak of this tournament. Hatchiyack could basically give Janemba the Gogeta-treatment. However, you estimated that this version of Janemba is even stronger than the Hatchiyak that Gast struggled against. That wasn’t the weird part, because that could be true as Salagir has retconned non-canon characters in the past. What I called weird was the fact that you made that assumption about Janemba’s power, but at the same time called him ”beatstick” to Gast, when Gast was already much weaker than Hatchiyak who, again, you estimated to be weaker than Janemba.

By your scaling on Janemba, Gast should be the beatstick, like he almost was for Hatchiyak before.

Okay, I see where the confusion comes from.
By saying "beatstick" I mean that Janemba is simply a pawn with a lot of raw power for XXI to use against Gast, nothing else. Like Yu-Gi-Oh cards, with high ATK stats but no effects (or mediocre ones), on top of hard summoning conditions. That's a beatstick.

As for Hatchiyak being SS1 Vegetto level.. From what I recall the machine that births Hatchiyak doesn't literally absorb the powers of the ghosts, but it's fueled by the anger/hatred of the entities. Therefore Hatchiyak itself is not as powerful as the sum of the entities, because that would already be way more than even SS2 Vegetto.
If that was retconned by Salagir, please correct me on this one.

Because of movie placement of Hatchiyak and Janemba relative to the Anime timeline. Hatchiyak was defeated by Cell Saga Goku, Vegeta, Trunks, Gohan and Piccolo. Janemba was throwing MBS SS3 Goku and SS2 Vegeta around, until they fused and overpowered him in literally one move.

If Gast was SS1 Vegetto level, he shouldn't have any issues with ghost SS3 Emperor Vegeta or ghost LSSJ Broly.

And how is it weird stating that Janemba is more powerful than Hatchiyak? Why would XXI pull out a weaker entity with no additional powers?

What an entrance. And the artwork never ceases to awe. Particularly the composition.

I think what will be particularly interesting is how Salagir and co. will show how Janemba interacts with local space.

If I remember correctly, Universe 1 is a dead universe with no other dimensions. There is no heaven or hell, or any form of complex life anywhere in the physical, material or ethereal realms. Just... Rock. Rock, Stars, debris and maybe a few single celled organisms here and there. And of course: the Dragon Ball Multiverse arena.

Janemba is the product of his respective universe's evils when the tanks that were cleansing all the souls of the dead that pass through was breached. His very existence was an aberration and by the sheer weight of his presence, immediately upon his birth, the barriers between the Earth, Heaven, and Hell were broken and distorted. It was through these distortions that he held absolute dominion as he could rewrite reality to his very whim. But this was all unstable and would permanently damage the very fabric of existence. This is why he was one of the most dangerous opponents in Dragon Ball history. Who knows what could have occurred if he had survived considering what did happen from his brief hour of life, as chaotic and dangerous as it was. Possibly the destruction of more dimensional spaces such as time and space. Only through his death was everything naturally repaired.

His combat abilities are nothing to scoff at either. A raw ki blast at point-blank range wounded SSJ3 Goku (who had the additional perks of being dead and thus no drawbacks from the SSJ3 form, and added pain resistance) so enormously that he was no longer a threat. Despite being outmatched at hand-to-hand combat, he immediately moved to distort reality; to phase away from his attacks, summon portals to redirect and/or counterattack, and warp any object to suit his needs. His iconic sword for instance slashed reality itself: he cut Goku's final ki blast so perfectly that it spilt it two, and even after it incinerated the air around him, he proceeded to cut it and the beans (literal solid condensed balls of reality; it was little wonder why SSJ2 Vegeta, who was also dead like Goku, was almost immediately defeated when he was forcefully thrust into a field of it) with ease. It was only through Goku's own Ki resistance that the damage was reduced just enough that his arm stayed on the shoulder. Subsequently, he was on the brink of death once he was struck again, and were it not for Vegeta's intervention, he would of been cut in twain.

With all this in mind, how will Janemba fare outside of his source of power and the home field advantage he would enjoy?

Janemba is not in his respective universe, but will his presence be sufficient enough to cause a destabilization of Universe 1, or at least the local space of the arena, as it would in his own? Without that distortion, is he still capable of the moveset that made him so iconic? Even without such, he is still very powerful in raw power.

What about Gast? Will he recognize that Janemba is an abomination and immediately move to cleanse Janemba's ki and save the Oni worker beneath?

XXI is right. This is the perfect opponent! Good vs. Evil. Day vs. Night.

Much like Gast vs. Dr Raichi, this one will be the fight of the year!.

This is going to be awesome :)

So, as Janemba has no magic powers, only mostly space manipulation, he's just a beatstick against Gast. Like Hatchiyak was, but stronger and hella unpredictable.

Actually, I'd argue that not having transformations makes you more limited, but that's just me.

Nobody Talking about How Kakarott is openly blurting that he is on his way to his appartment, while Raditz told him not to tell? haha

Mostly, I'd say the idea the androids were were weaker comes from trunks having no way to gauge the androids due to them not having a sensible ki, and well, they liked to dick around and keep gohan and trunks in the dark as to where they stand.

the androids struggling against gohan was a toei only invention as well as gohans death making trunks go ssj.

we don't see the fight, but 17 sprints towards gohan and he is shocked as a result of the speed, as I assume its way more than he was expecting. they don't seem to lose any power, so maybe the future androids were made weaker by gero as a means to control them?

let me play daburas advocate here, if we were to go by the assumption they are weaker, then maybe they weren't degrading so much as gero made some modifications to suppress their power, as we can clearly see in dbs that 17 didn't lose nay power, he actually got stronger.

The whole point is that they don't get weaker over time due to a lack of regular maintenance on the sole mechanical part present in their bodies, i.e the small perpetual energy reactor..

My man here has never heard of the concept of a character not being completely correct when they say something.

Well, I tried my best but....let me put it like this. There were a lot of people and we only had the first hour to ask questions, after that they made a recap of both last chapters and after that, Salagir only stayed for mostly one hour. Most questions I gathered weren't even that good questions either or didn't even relate to the chapters, so didn't bother even asking them, because I already knew the answer.

But one big and interesting question that got answered would be:

How long have you planned the winner of Goku vs Vegeta?

Salagir: Since the very beginning of the DBM tournament. Goku was always going to get into the finals. :)

There will be a Q&A livestream at saturday with Salagir, Arcady and Asura who will answer all your questions about the last two main chapters!

You can put all your question here in the comments and I will gather them and post the answers for you guys after the stream!

There will be a Q&A livestream at saturday with Salagir, Arcady and Asura who will answer all your questions about the last two main chapters!

You can put all your question here in the comments and I will gather them and post the answers for you guys after the stream!

@iron leaf
Disappointed but not surprised, it's not the first time Salagir wrote his headcanons into the series.

Or Gast, Vegetto and Zen Buu by this logic. Not to mention both Gotenks.

Damn Dabura got shafted by Salagir's headcanon.

Having vegeta turn ssj3 as his trump card is kinda lame. HIs true trump card should be a very uniquely evolved version of ssj2 with a new technique. Maybe give him gogeta's soul punisher attack. Having him follow kakarot is lame.

Let’s goooooo (almost broke the all caps rule in my excitement).

Praying for a few pages of real DB style martial arts.. I’m really happy the fight isn’t over yet honestly. We got the power level flexing out of the way and now we can appreciate some fighting fighting.

Boohoo this boohoo that

You guys do know that Asura's art is the only saving grace this fan comic has, right?

Asura is quite possibly the best Dragon Ball artist out there, and the biggest detractor from your stupid special chapter is the fact that you gather - quite often inferior - artists that aren't Asura to do them. So if you have artists other than Asura do the art for the main chapters, that is a MAJOR quality drop.

And art was the only thing DBM had going for it. Reconsider.

I don't think Uub is weaker then super buu. Super Buu is a reconfiguration. He's stronger then regular fat Buu (which isnt end of z fat buu) but not that much. Ss3 goku is or should be about as strong as piccolo absorbed super Buu as he said he didn't need the potara to fight that Buu and gohan was dazed by that time and not in fighting shape. If I had to say that was goku maximum or close to it in the buu saga.

Uub fought the other buu that buu was stated to be stronger then our buu but we dont know by how much. Plus this goku is stronger then the goku from 10 years ago. So that should firmly put him in above super buu.

If I remember correctly, Buu made Uub "learn" this by making it look like the girl from his village was explaining it, right? In the dream? I would love to see that sequence in a flashback as Uub is going for it - would be hilarious to see the details from a simple village friend, lol "...and then your muscles would be jaaaaaacked dude! like Broly, for sure!" "What's a Broly?" "...Don't worry about it, lol".

I wonder if all the comments about how Goku was clearly winning last page (even while getting punched in the face- but I digress) will feel silly? Anyhow, time for Piccolo to look like a big idiot again when the we get a reveal of whatever page 1835 was about. Maybe Uub will say he didn't want to try this in a fight without practicing first, then we'll get "MAIJIN KaioKen!" or healing magic.

That Will be my last response. Again, she wasnt being mind controller.

If she was really being mind controlled she wouldnt be able to break free from it in the First place.

At least, Vegeta didnt killed his own family cold blooded.

Exactly, this whole mind control thing is nonsense since that's not how it works canonically.

Vegeta allowed himself to be mind controlled, Cell did too and did it to fight back against Babidi from the inside. Bra knew what she was getting into and still let it happen.

Lovely. Place your bets: Bejita vs Cell, who wins?

As Vegeto said earlier, pure strength can beat anything. I really don't have a problem with u20 Broly escaping considering other Brolys died by that method and we had Vegto earlier just flex to return to his home dimension.

I mentioned this in my comment but, I'm kinda thinking they'll "lose" but like not die if you know what I mean. Like they'll end up sealing Broly away or something on some last ditch effort and not like straight up defeating him like the last two times.

I understand that kid Gotenks was comparable if not surpassing ultimate Gohan in his ssj 3, but this is an older Gotenks and in this continuity for some reason, ssj 3 Gotenks is played up to be weaker than Gohan. Realistically Gotenks should be as powerful as Gogeta.

Remember when base Gohan pre-ultimate was slapping super saiyan Broly around?

Remember when Broly lost to Goten, Gohan, and Goku (who might not've actually been there)?

Remember how Bio-Broly is stated to be stronger than ever before and still loses to Krillin, Trunks, and Goten.

But Goku, in super saiyan three, and Gohan, in ultimate, are somehow weaker than Broly? A bit hard to believe. Although, this isn't the first time Broly gets this treatment in this series (Broly vs SUPER SAIYAN THREE VEGITO).

I could be wrong but I think the Dragonball Multiverse tournament takes place 10 years after the end of DBZ, therefore 20 years after the Buu saga. I'm not sure at which point during that time this story is supposed to take place, can't really tell since all the characters (the ones we have seen in this special) don't look much different in Dragonball multiverse compared to the end of DBZ. Either way I think it's kind of weird they can't even put up a fight against Broly. I think it would have been better if they could at least put up a fight until Broly's power grows further, but it will still be interesting to see where they go with it.

What about the 20+ years he is spent TRANSFORMED in a block of ice and offered as an explanation for him matching SSJ Vegito at the beginning of this comic?

So, if I had to venture a guess, it would be that Broly is going to pop in after having been sent back from the Vargas tournament unfrozen and stronger than ever from his fight with Vegito and his power gain for those 10-20 years he was frozen.

That is not the only problem.

See my previous post about why this fight is nothing like the fight with Nappa for an in-detail breakdown of the other problems with this fight in particular and the webcomic in general.

Actually that's not entirely true, I do know of one fanfiction that had a release schedule that occasionally fell into that, but the guy releasing it had daily updates for over four hundred days straight.

Salagir cannot have a webcomic with a webcomic release schedule but expect his audience to widely judge it like a manga with a manga's release schedule. That's, frankly, an unreasonable expectation on the part of his audience.

More to the point - why even try for that? Dragonball Multiverse will never actually be a manga. Salagir is trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole. With enough effort you can do it, but it seems easier to get just a round peg in this case. And the cost of doing that in public with an audience is going to be a substantive part of the audience asking why you don't just get a round peg.

Nnno, he's doing it for the audience, at least in part. If he was doing it solely for himself then he wouldn't be releasing it on the Internet for people to read and wouldn't be permitting comments.

You don't get to create a website, encourage an active community on that site, and then say "but I don't actually care what you think". The "in it for the art" excuse falls apart the moment you show someone else and invite them to give their opinion.

I say that if this is going to be released with manga-like pacing in its story then we should be getting chapters at a time in a manga-like fashion

I'd frankly rather wait months between story updates so that the chapters could be released all at once

These criticism makes sense today, now (2020). it doesn't matter if they won't be worth in the future.

The other constructive criticism is that Salagir should stop writing this like it's a manga because it's not, it's a webcomic with a completely different release schedule and completely different audience exposure, which means that if you pace the story being told the same way you'd pace a manga, you just end up what's happening here. By a wide margin I'm not the only one wishing this was over, I'm just among the more verbose.

The minicomics should be a separate project, not interruptions to the main one.

The entire post

The problem though is a lot has happened in Super, but not really much in Multiverse.

In every other arc the heros get more powerful as the fight goes on. In DBM, the heros are static meaning that if they can't beat x at the very start, they aint beating x.
AND THATS THE PROBLEM.

Why does everyone keep comparing this to lengthy parts in the Dragon Ball manga?
None of the arcs went on for 3 years.

I appreciate this comic but I'm getting a little disappointed with this story. The plot is not moving and Bra is to OP atm. Gohan should have at least done some kind of damage.

Your nickel was saying: Of course it didn't work...
Well, have you seen the Dragon Ball Multiverse Twitter account? Because I've looked on said Twitter account, and I saw art of Majin Buu with Bra absorbed, which gives me a slight sense of hope that the battle against Majin Bra will end soon.

YouTube videos are free for the consumer. Not all make money. In fact a great majority of YouTubers don't make any money or make so little that it is not any money to speak of.

Off-limits? Shut up and enjoy? Don't comment unless you are saying how much you love it? No thanks, friend. When I praise something, it is because I like it. When I criticize something, it is because it is honest.
In case you forgot, I like DBM, but I think the story pace has stagnated over the last year - just my opinion. There are many like it, but this one is mine. I am not responsible for the opinions of others.

It seems like you might want to take your own advice. Take a break, and when you come back, avoid the comment section so that you won't see any opinions from people expressing things differently than you would prefer.

Cheers! Hope you had a great weekend! Best wishes!

Is that why Asura drew the last minicomic?

Broadcast TV is free. YouTube videos are free. This does not stop the public from offering an opinion on the their perceived quality. Just because something is free does not mean people can't express an opinion.

The art has been fantastic. The reason that pacing is starting to stress me is that I care. I care about DBM, and I care about the story. I want to know what happens next. However, Bleach 1000 year blood war arc... That's all I am going to say.

Look, this wouldnt be as annoying (for me, at least) if we didn't know that the Venetian language part of the website already has the next page. That basically implies that waiting for the art isnt the problem (Salagir is implying the same thing as well by just saying the minicomics are for fun).

Also, as I said before, we'd all already seen the next page, as it was leaked, so we know it's done

Salagir is just taking our respect and patience for granted and palming it off as ''it's free'' , yes it may be free, but don't you think there's a reason they're still upset, even knowing that? It's because you completely take us for a ride, you created something beautiful, acquired a huge fanbase, and now you treat that fanbase like poop if i'm honest.

You thought this would be funny, but that just means one of two things
2. you know them, you just don't care
And that sucks bro

Honestly I gotta wonder whether Salagir has as much planned out as he says he does if he's stalling this much for time.

The comparison to Nappa is an unfair one. Let's compare apples to apples. We will compare Salagir to Salagir. Earlier in the series, Vegeta from u13 destroyed Raichii's ghosts in a brutal slaughterfest. This effectively portrayed vegeta as a one-man army but did not drag on incessantly like these chapters. Salagir is capable of showing a one-sided fight while keeping good pacing but he failed to accomplish it here.

Compare the amount of pages that u13 vegeta spent pounding on raichiis ghosts with the amount of pages bra has spent terrorizing the z fighters and you will understand why the readership is so frustrated.

I’m taking note of all the people who used to contest kakarot being immortal but now have completely jump shift and think kakarot is going to stay immortal. It’s like you’re on a ship, and after some turbenlence, members jump off the ship immediately - ignoring and forsaking their vassals and crew members.

You talk like I didn't stated that before. This theroy has been going since 2015. And I always provided reasons as to how Kakarotto surivive all these deadly wounds, Not just beacase I "dislike" the idea.

And neither do you. From the specail chapters we have there's nothing suggest that he want to sake the dragonballs.

Lame.

LAME! And so cheap.

What Kakarotto said suggest that rely on zenkai. what he said that "I will grow stronger every time I lose" not "meh I cannot die".

Which they're all lame ideas. I hope if Kakarotto turns out to be immortal in the next page/pages, Salagir'll give us a better scenario than this.

Oh?! I'm the one who's close minded or is it you who can't see Kakarotto surviving without wishing for immortality?

Uhhh No? It was clearly shewing in page 1064 that he suffered from it at the beginning.

Not when he was kid. maybe after King Piccolo took him that he made him that. But in ch.47 he never showed any enjoyment in killing humans.

(Wow, you cleary know nothing about U13 Kakarotto) No, the loneliness became an issue since he never has any friends.

If his mission always come first then why didn't he kill Krillin on page 1076? it because he didn't want to.

That was way way AFTER! You can see he's not the same person when he met Krillin. -- My theory that he become like this after he killed krillin.

Yeah...pretty sure he will choose the other one.

Yeah, you are right! It's better to let him free to train & get stronger than to lock him up. I reallly dumb.

Yeah, sure sure, it's not like Kakarotto will become much stronger in the future & kill Vegeta.

The emperor of the universe has no access to his empire?!! lol nice one.

Not getting stronger? you mean like not letting him enter a tournament were he fight strong fighters? Because he did exactly that!

Face it! It doesn't make any sense for Vegeta to take Kakarotto with him unless if he's not immortal.

I really hope this just Salagir way to troll us or I will be disappointed.

My question is why people don't think he could just come back with the Dragon Balls
We know that they go to Namek, perhaps Vegeta realizes he needs backup and wishes them back or something
Honestly, I hope he's immortal just because it's out of character for Vegeta to wish anyone back
But that is another possibility nobody is talking about

frambuesa was saying: Kakarotto is immortal like Garlick Jr type of immortal.
Technically speaking, Garlick Jr would be the "can't die from old age" kind of immortal since no one did major damage to him like, say, cut off his head..

@Grydon Kakarot's body being disintegrated and having his head still alive for a split second doesn't prove anything. It was probably there to show just how quickly Gohan destroyed his opponent, to the point where his body didn't even register his death.

Tjeez guys Kakkorot is NOT immortal. Gohan crushed him at the tournament and after that he never came back. If he was immortal he would survived what Gohan did to him.
Vegeta OR perhaps Raditz will most likely revive him with the Dragonballs. That is how he will come back. Absolutely not through immortality.

The things is, it's not just "I don't think he's immortal" it's also "I don't WANT him to be immortal" because it goes against his character & it makes his victory over the earthlings cheap. He cheated death to win. That's so boring.

1.The dragonballs wasn't his objective.

2.None of the one's who search for the dragonballs want to wish for immortality.

3.Kakarotto would wish for something else other than immortality.

4.The fact Vegeta is letting him free.

(Wasn't it already debunked when Gohan disintegrated his torso though?)

*you got to love the people in this comment section who are just flagrantly ignoring clear evidence as to why kakarot is not immortal.* Like, people: READ the novel! It literally says multiple times how kakarot can face death! Sighs... this comment is probably going to get ignored. I’m speaking facts and yet getting ignored for conspiracy squabble that’s bound to be wrong.
KAKAROT ISNT IMMORTAL. THE NOVEL PROVES SO. PEOPLE TELLING YOU KAKROT IS IMMORTAL HAVE NO READ THE NOVEL AND ARE WRONG! FACTS. Make sure you pick up that dam phone because I’m calling it!

I see what's happening here... Vegeta decided to give his men the largest Zenkai boost he could... He's probably gonna head to Namek, rez them and tell them his plan to eliminate Frieza.

If I was writing vegito, and he finds out about this, she’s getting a spopovich level beating and will indefinitely be in the doghouse of playing “protector of earth”. And that’s what she deserves, to get humiliated beyond repair so she’ll learn. But I highlig doubt salagir has the guts to do it. This bra ordeal is bet you will have little payoff for everyone involved other than fan service for the participants.

Not hating, this is awesome. But shouldn't Bra be able to easily break through that barrier, since she was gonna throw a blow meant to kill Ultimate Gohan?